[FossBytes] Meet Serpent OS: A Truly Modern Linux Distribution Under Development - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[FossBytes] Meet Serpent OS: A Truly Modern Linux Distribution Under Development

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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 11:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by kakik09 View Post
I have no idea what half these words meant. But if it means an easier transition from Windows to Linux for me then I wish it all the best.
same, i wish to see a perfect drop-in replacement for windows to the point that i wouldn't even notice i was running Linux.

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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 11:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post
same, i wish to see a perfect drop-in replacement for windows to the point that i wouldn't even notice i was running Linux.
Then you need a ton of money to fund its development, the ability to herd cats, and a willingness to fight the inevitable lawsuits that will land from Microsoft.


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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 01:30 AM
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Sounds interesting, I run Solus on an older laptop. Wouldn't mind trying it out.

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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 03:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by mothergoose729 View Post
Yes, this, all of this. I have a computer science degree and I work as a programmer. I use the CLI everyday. I hate being forced to use the CLI when I mess around with linux.

It is not that I can't learn it, it's that I don't want to. I want to install software and configure my desktop to play games and surf the internet. When I am searching the man pages of xconfig trying to understand the transform commands, because all I want to to is shift my desktop a couple pixels to the right (real world problem I have) I am turned off to linux. In windows, it was a gui option in the drivers that took no instruction at all.

I have no idea why GUI tools haven't been standardized and adopted by linux distro authors. There are so many things you can't do, or at the very least I can't figure out how to do, without having to go into a terminal. Even installing basic software from the software center was a challenge when I set up lubuntu on a destkop recently. Why is this stuff so hard? Why do I have to go to the terminal to add a repo for steam and install it? Why when I install steam, do I have to go back to the terminal and download dependencies that steam requires, but can't seem to download on its own?

I have a CS degree and years of experience with linux and I find it frustrating. If you don't know anything about computers, and you run into issues like this trying to get a system up and running, then it is completely pointless and a waste of your time. Just pay a little extra money for a mac or a windows machine so you can get back to work or play.

To me, the "features" list of serpent OS read like an opinionated check list by nerds, for nerds, that have nothing or very little to do with actually using a computer. Why do I care if the distro only support UEFI boot? What good does it do me if the distro is compiled with or without certain flags or ASM?

I get it, the distro isn't for me, its for someone who does care. And that is fine, that is the beauty of linux and open source software. But most people, even people who have a basic understanding of the release notes like me, don't give a damn.

I think part of it has to do with gate keeping, i know some people get this thought in their head that if they can use the terminal to get what they want that they're some 1337 h4x0r and are better than those plebs who only want to use GUIs.

A couple years ago i was in a nice paid bootcamp to learn the mainframe as the company that hired the bootcamp to find recruits was looking to train up new blood as a lot of their employees were close to retirement. They had a very hard time trying to hire young people on their own because no one was interested or had the skills and the only real applicants were all 50+ years old.

I ended up getting hired but can't wait to get out and move on to a better paying software engineering job where i can use a modern GUI based OS to get my work done. What's interesting is a lot of effort is being put into building web pages that are completely GUI based to use and manage the different areas for mainframe. It's twofold the reason for it, one is to attract younger generations who would not accept using the older style terminal to get work done, and the other is because its just easier to use and get work done. Even if performing a specific action may take a little longer, GUIs can help you visualize data and what you're doing better than some green text on a black screen.

I've never had an interest in getting involved with Linux as all i want to do on my own PC is browse the web and use it to play games and Windows is great for that. Linux is still a PITA if you're a gamer, and even if/when it catches up to Windows in that area i won't care to switch because there's no point.

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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 03:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Malinkadink View Post
I think part of it has to do with gate keeping, i know some people get this thought in their head that if they can use the terminal to get what they want that they're some 1337 h4x0r and are better than those plebs who only want to use GUIs.

A couple years ago i was in a nice paid bootcamp to learn the mainframe as the company that hired the bootcamp to find recruits was looking to train up new blood as a lot of their employees were close to retirement. They had a very hard time trying to hire young people on their own because no one was interested or had the skills and the only real applicants were all 50+ years old.

I ended up getting hired but can't wait to get out and move on to a better paying software engineering job where i can use a modern GUI based OS to get my work done. What's interesting is a lot of effort is being put into building web pages that are completely GUI based to use and manage the different areas for mainframe. It's twofold the reason for it, one is to attract younger generations who would not accept using the older style terminal to get work done, and the other is because its just easier to use and get work done. Even if performing a specific action may take a little longer, GUIs can help you visualize data and what you're doing better than some green text on a black screen.

I've never had an interest in getting involved with Linux as all i want to do on my own PC is browse the web and use it to play games and Windows is great for that. Linux is still a PITA if you're a gamer, and even if/when it catches up to Windows in that area i won't care to switch because there's no point.
As an avid Linux fan I totally agree with you. I run XFCE on my media server because I don't want to sit and stare at a black screen with white text when I just want to copy files, seeing files being copied from one location to another is much easier than visualising it in text. I believe that nearly everything can and should have a GUI in Linux. For example installing and setting up ClamAV is very annoying via CLI, whereas it could be just a few clicks in a GUI. GUI's do exist to manage Clam but they aren't installed by default, which is not the way it should be. Who on earth would still like to use the CLI to ensure that their office software is able to print, was was done 20 years ago? Who wants to enable their soundcard or emm386 to ensure the OS recognises their RAM?

So, why is it so hard? As you said, it's elitism. Linux users feel they are superiour to Windows users because Windows users haven't seen the CLI since DOS and for good reason. There are certain advanced things that require CLI, especially OS/server management that would be inefficient with a GUI. One such example is setting up pass through or advanced VM management, however VMWare and VBox have GUI's for a very good reason.


To say that Linux absolutely must require knowledge of the CLI to work is nonsense. A lot of basic things no longer require the CLI so I don't know why other things can't, thus Linux still needs to adapt a more user friendly approach.

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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 05:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
People who say that CLI is easy for everyone are the same people that don't recognize the frustration of trying to remember if a command uses / or - for arguments, or have not tried to actually use CLI on a horrible keyboard or touchscreen.

It's almost like the world developed the concept of a GUI for a reason other than to annoy Linux users.
This!

Especially when Bash/Shell are decades upon decades old, with incredibly average help / man systems and far from intuitive like object orientated CLI.

Quote: Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
I've never understood why people are scared of the commandline. Powershell, with its obscure syntax, that, I could vaguely understand why. But bash? Sure, you can make bash an obscure mess of cascading possibilities, but day to day tasks are mostly simple.
I personally disagree

PowerShell is obvious with its noun + verb nomenclature.
Get, Set, Move, Start, Stop
Item, User, Process, Adapter, Service

It's obvious what a cmdlet does.

So to working with objects of the same class and being able to pipe them, Get-Process -Name 'whatever.exe' | Stop-Process. That's clear to anyone semi literate. Then there's it far more comprehensive help and example syntax capabilities.

You tell me how the average punter would have any idea sudo apt-get does. Heaven help them if they use a distro using Yum instead and apt doesn't even exist to boot.

Another classic example, how is 'mv oldname newname' in any way intuitive for renaming a file?
Meanwhile in PowerShell, Rename-Item....
I know which of these two I'd be putting my money on the average joe wrapping their head around first.



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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 06:17 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Liranan View Post
So, why is it so hard? As you said, it's elitism. Linux users feel they are superiour to Windows users because Windows users haven't seen the CLI since DOS and for good reason. There are certain advanced things that require CLI, especially OS/server management that would be inefficient with a GUI. One such example is setting up pass through or advanced VM management, however VMWare and VBox have GUI's for a very good reason.


To say that Linux absolutely must require knowledge of the CLI to work is nonsense. A lot of basic things no longer require the CLI so I don't know why other things can't, thus Linux still needs to adapt a more user friendly approach.

No it's not. Linux packages are developed by people all around the world, most doing it in their free time. Time is a limited resource. Developers add functionally that they want themselves. I'm sure if you or anyone else filled out a bug report to your DE or package of choice requesting a function you wish to have, they would consider implementing it.

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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post
same, i wish to see a perfect drop-in replacement for windows to the point that i wouldn't even notice i was running Linux.
Unfortunately to do so would mean either Microsoft would have to make a Linux OS with full Windows capability, or they would have to strike a deal with a developer for use of many Windows proprietary code which would cost a lot of money and make the Linux OS need to also cost money. It would be nice if a Linux distro would offer seamless transition, but it just isnt ever going to happen.



Quote: Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
I've never understood why people are scared of the commandline. Powershell, with its obscure syntax, that, I could vaguely understand why.
Funny because I like PowerShell the most. It is far easier to use and get things done

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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Malinkadink View Post
I've never had an interest in getting involved with Linux as all i want to do on my own PC is browse the web and use it to play games and Windows is great for that. Linux is still a PITA if you're a gamer, and even if/when it catches up to Windows in that area i won't care to switch because there's no point.
Linux gaming is simple but running Windows games on Linux can be a PITA depending on the distro. In most distros it's just 2 steps(3 for nVidia users) to get a Linux installed that plays Windows titles using Wine with a GUI.


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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:03 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
Then you need a ton of money to fund its development, the ability to herd cats, and a willingness to fight the inevitable lawsuits that will land from Microsoft.
And that Cat Herding is going on here.


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