[Digital Trends] No games will support ray tracing when Nvidia RTX graphics cards launch - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Digital Trends] No games will support ray tracing when Nvidia RTX graphics cards launch

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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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[Digital Trends] No games will support ray tracing when Nvidia RTX graphics cards launch

Full title: No games will support ray tracing when Nvidia RTX graphics cards launch

Quote:
When Nvidia’s RTX-series graphics cards debut on September 20, complete with tensor cores for A.I.-driven supersampling and RT cores for ray tracing, some of those features will go completely unused. Despite a growing list of games that will eventually support ray tracing, Nvidia has confirmed that there won’t be a single game with ray tracing support on the day of the cards’ launch.
Source.

Win 10 a requirement? Your guess is as good as mine. Read on:

Quote:
Tony Tamasi, Nvidia senior vice president of content and technology, confirmed to PC World, some of them will begin to add ray tracing features a month or two after the release of the cards. That will coincide with Microsoft’s planned Windows 10 October 2018 update, which should bring official support for its own DirectX ray tracing API, which powers Nvidia’s solution.
So, that said, it could mean it will be a while before we see any solid real world testing results as far as ray tracing and gaming go.

Edited 091618 (added for context): [PCWorld] Ray traced games won't launch with Nvidia's GeForce RTX graphics cards (excerpts follow):

Quote:
...despite all the ray tracing hype, no ray traced games will be available when the GeForce RTX 2080 and 2080 Ti launch on September 20. Nvidia senior VP of content and technology Tony Tamasi confirmed that at an RTX Editor’s Day presentation, in response to a PCWorld query. Don’t expect any updates activating Nvidia's hybrid ray tracing for more lifelike lighting, shadows, and reflections in games like Shadow of the Tomb Raider at release, either.

It’s not Nvidia’s fault. Nvidia’s RTX technology—the name for a proprietary blend of hardware and software features—builds its ray tracing support on top of Microsoft’s own DirectX Raytracing API, which was announced earlier this spring. And well, DirectX Raytracing hasn’t rolled out to Windows 10 proper yet, though developers have been able to access it in Windows Insider preview builds since March.



Last edited by iamjanco; 09-17-2018 at 04:15 AM. Reason: Fixed title after E increased Title char length setting
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 09:04 PM
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Does anyone remember when the Radeon 9700 Pro launched? (first DX9 card)
What about the Geforce 8800 GTX? (first DX10 card)
Or the Radeon HD 5870? (first DX11 card)

Well congratulations!!! We have our first DXR card... the Nvidia Geforce RTX 20xx series!!!


Which means it's first generation tech and performance will SUCK on the latest and greatest. Older games will be fine, but as soon as you turn on that new set of features (DXR)... it's probably not going to be that great.

Wait a couple of years, and everything will have it. However, on launch day... nothing will have it.



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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 09:48 PM
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Even games that support it will supporting what amounts to worse-than-useless eye-candy. Reflections and dynamic shadows will be the very first things turned off not only to increase framerates, but to bump up the resolution, so I really don't even see why we're all talking about this. People are going to run ray tracing for ten minutes in single player and shut it off. Crap, even if RTX takes off this current generation of cards won't be powerful enough to run it well when it's actually a popular. The 2000 series will be made or broken based on performance benchmarks versus the 1000 series, nothing else.

I fully expect the benchmarks to be fairly standard in performance gains that we've come to expect generation to generation. None of this is bad. It's just not mind blowing. We have clearly hit the wall of diminishing returns.

Anyone that has been following ray-tracing since at least Larrabee knows that partial ray-tracing has long been predicted, and that it's a terrible idea that will go nowhere. For ray tracing to succeed, it's all or nothing. The game has to be entirely ray-traced , or it's not worth the trouble to do it. The problem is that real-time ray-tracing REQUIRES parallel processing and scales basically linearly depending on how many pairs of GPUs you have. There is no motherboard that could handle enough graphics cards to fully ray-trace Battlefield V because the PCIE bus can't handle it even if you've got enough slots to plug them in. NVIDIA has been kind enough to give us all a demonstration - partial ray-tracing has dropped the playable framerate to ~60FPS at 1080p, which is a resolution that has been around for over ten years at this point. Presumably 1440p and 4K aren't even worth benchmarking. Four 2080TI's wouldn't be enough to fully ray-trace the game @ 1080p with 60FPS.

Old games would actually benefit from a full ray-tracing remaster, but anything current is too much to handle, and old games don't sell graphics cards.

As to the Windows 10 requirement, NVIDIA has already stated that RTX is currently DX12 only, which means Windows 10. Not 8. Not 7. It will be running in WINE on Linux before 8 or 7 because I seriously doubt that they will bother porting it to DX11. Last I heard they have stated that there is a Vulkan implementation planned, but that we shouldn't expect it for months, maybe not even this year simply because there are NO Linux games scheduled to release in what's left of 2018 that support RTX.

Meanwhile, AMD announced their own ray-tracing project in March-April. It's based on Vulkan. AMD will also be powering both the next Peasant-Station and the next XBONE. That being the case, who do you really think is going to win the ray-tracing api fight?

I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid... and I went ahead anyway.

If it's not coming out for the PC, it's dead to me.

Last edited by Jarhead; 09-15-2018 at 09:58 PM.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 10:25 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post
Does anyone remember when the Radeon 9700 Pro launched? (first DX9 card)
What about the Geforce 8800 GTX? (first DX10 card)
Or the Radeon HD 5870? (first DX11 card)


Well congratulations!!! We have our first DXR card... the Nvidia Geforce RTX 20xx series!!!


Which means it's first generation tech and performance will SUCK on the latest and greatest. Older games will be fine, but as soon as you turn on that new set of features (DXR)... it's probably not going to be that great.

Wait a couple of years, and everything will have it. However, on launch day... nothing will have it.
I seem to remember those cards being performance beasts to begin with and competitively priced too (maybe not the 8800).

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 01:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post
Does anyone remember when the Radeon 9700 Pro launched? (first DX9 card)
What about the Geforce 8800 GTX? (first DX10 card)
Or the Radeon HD 5870? (first DX11 card)

Well congratulations!!! We have our first DXR card... the Nvidia Geforce RTX 20xx series!!!


Which means it's first generation tech and performance will SUCK on the latest and greatest. Older games will be fine, but as soon as you turn on that new set of features (DXR)... it's probably not going to be that great.

Wait a couple of years, and everything will have it. However, on launch day... nothing will have it.
At least the 5870 was a very solid card in DX11 first games. Its performance in DX10 was very good, and in DX11 it had the king's crown until nvidia brought the 400 series 6 months or so later.

Its performance definitely didn't suck. Other features and AMD driver problems were a big issue at the time, but the cards themselves had great potential and once used with the right drivers, did extremely well.


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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 07:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Beregond View Post
I seem to remember those cards being performance beasts to begin with and competitively priced too (maybe not the 8800).
That would be because the other two were ATI/AMD.

The new cores/hw accelerations added on Turing/Volta are nice when they are used, but no one is really using them yet beside some business applications that may just buy a specific AI acceleration card anyway.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 10:41 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Beregond View Post
I seem to remember those cards being performance beasts to begin with and competitively priced too (maybe not the 8800).
The 9700 Pro, 8800 GTX, and HD 5870 were all performance beasts... in previous generation titles.

The 9700 Pro was the first DX9 card - https://techreport.com/review/4104/a...aphics-card/16 (nothing to test DX9 capabilities at launch)
The problem with the 9700 Pro was that once DX9 became mainstream, they were 2-3 generations newer on GPU tech, which would have landed squarely in 8800 GTX territory.

If you search reviews, the same thing happened with the 8800 GTX... fantastic DX9 card, but fell on its face in DX10 content (again, nothing to test @ launch)

The HD 5870 was also the same... an amazing DX10 card that SUCKED at DX11 (Nvidia's GTX 480 wiped the floor with it in tessellation capabilities, but it launched 6 months later).



Based on what we're seeing with the RTX 20 series, I think it's safe to say that for DX11/12, it's going to be fantastic, but as soon as you turn on DXR/RTX features, performance will tank.





EDIT: One thing to consider is that the current Pascal generation from Nvidia is tech that has been refined since Kepler 2 generations ago. The reason the GTX 1080 Ti is so fast in modern titles is because it is running a feature set that is several years old now. The RTX 20 series of cards will be the same way; it will obliterate today's games, but Ray Tracing... not a chance.




Last edited by Mad Pistol; 09-16-2018 at 10:50 AM.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 10:55 AM
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Also, so you don't think I'm playing fanboy here, I owned both the 8800 GTX and HD 5870.

The 8800 GTX was a monster. It used a ton of power but absolutely obliterated DX8/9 games. Especially games like Battlefield 2. Remember, this was the "Crysis" age where even an 8800 GTX could only run Crysis @ High settings well. Crank it up to Very High or turn on DX10 features, and oh lordy... 20-30 FPS was the norm.

The HD 5870 was, in a word, magnificent. AMD/ATI's multi-display tech "eyefinity" debuted with this card, and Nvidia didn't have a response until Kepler (2 years later). Also, it ran Crysis like a dream and plowed through Battlefield: Bad Company 2, even @ 1080P. It did all of this while consuming a lot less power than Nvidia's Fermi cards. To this day, the HD 5870 is one of my favorite video cards ever to be released. If you want to see AMD/ATI at the top of their game, I think the HD 5870 was it. (Radeon 9700/9800 was a close 2nd, though)



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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 03:29 PM
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Just wait a year then got a 2080 RTX card most bugs will be gone & you will most games supported!
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 08:05 PM
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lol bought 2 5870's at launch and paired them with my i7 930 at the time and they were great cards. Bad Company 2 was the big dx11 game at the time and it ran that game beautify on max settings DX11. Also we are what, 3 years into DX12? and almost no games use it. I know a fair amount support it but its for like one feature like hair, or water. Im still waiting for that DX12 multi card support we were promised way back when. Where the API views both cards as one regardless of manufacture. We will probably never see it tho. Just like we will never see ray tracing get off the ground. This is just physX all over again, why can no one see this...
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