[nVidia] Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan - Page 6 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

[nVidia] Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #51 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 01:31 PM
Overclocker
 
JackCY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 9,280
Rep: 309 (Unique: 225)
Well you could try running other path tracing you know from Blender, etc. in real time, good luck XD In that sense it is an advancement both in hardware and software.
Modern games are far from "wow" to me, looks fake if anything, littered with useless effects making you blind more often than not.

You can also play with Unreal if you want to see the difference visually and in performance between rasterizing and tracing. Rasterizing is very limiting in what it can do and how much effort has to be put into it to fake most of the effects, they are static, baked in and half the time not even that Sure it looks "cool"/different, but inaccurate. From first decent looking games such as HL all we got was shaders that litter games with endless fake effects to try and make them look "better". What did we get since shaders? Nothing. The whole industry is stuck and barely progresses.

Where is it going? Where non real time rendering has been a decade or more ago. How fast were shaders when first introduced? Snail. How fast were 3D accelerators when first introduced? Snail. Of course RTX cards are still snail at tracing, it's added to it, it also has rasterizing and shaders.

Vega64, lets say it's on par with RTX2070, is definitely not a 4k card XD Well if you consider 60fps OK then maybe, I don't.

No one likes the prices of newer NV cards, me neither, it's what happens when AMD gives up and sells their people to Intel, competition zero. AMD at this point is making GPUs because they can and because they are developing them for consoles etc. We won't see them push the limit soon if ever again. They focus on low-mid range cards and hopefully keep value more in their mind unlike the 400-500+Vega fiasco where NV cards were actually in reality a better value :/ Ever since GCN, buying a new AMD card vs a new NV card is often not in favor of AMD, at least in EU.

I have nothing against a corporation investing resources into improving OSS and releasing the Q2RTX demo finally. Sure they slap branding and marketing on it, but then who wouldn't. As far as their other demos go... they haven't made any at all in generations: https://www.nvidia.com/coolstuff/demos Maxwell was the last.

Regular game devs... to be honest from what I see and read it's more turning into 3D modeling houses than game devs, they don't make their game engines anymore, they use free ones or get a license, Unity, Unreal, ... only the behemoths with established franchises have some of their own 3D engine.
Making adoption of new features in general left to those who make 3D game engines, such as Unity, Unreal, ...

Tracing has been around for decades, but no one yet invested enough in hardware accelerations and made it more accessible, NV now did because there is no competition on GPU market and they can charge what ever the hell they want for how ever little they want to offer.
JackCY is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 01:52 PM
Official Luddite of OCN
 
SoloCamo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 5,335
Rep: 409 (Unique: 213)
Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Well you could try running other path tracing you know from Blender, etc. in real time, good luck XD In that sense it is an advancement both in hardware and software.
Modern games are far from "wow" to me, looks fake if anything, littered with useless effects making you blind more often than not.

You can also play with Unreal if you want to see the difference visually and in performance between rasterizing and tracing. Rasterizing is very limiting in what it can do and how much effort has to be put into it to fake most of the effects, they are static, baked in and half the time not even that Sure it looks "cool"/different, but inaccurate. From first decent looking games such as HL all we got was shaders that litter games with endless fake effects to try and make them look "better". What did we get since shaders? Nothing. The whole industry is stuck and barely progresses.

Where is it going? Where non real time rendering has been a decade or more ago. How fast were shaders when first introduced? Snail. How fast were 3D accelerators when first introduced? Snail. Of course RTX cards are still snail at tracing, it's added to it, it also has rasterizing and shaders.

Vega64, lets say it's on par with RTX2070, is definitely not a 4k card XD Well if you consider 60fps OK then maybe, I don't.

No one likes the prices of newer NV cards, me neither, it's what happens when AMD gives up and sells their people to Intel, competition zero. AMD at this point is making GPUs because they can and because they are developing them for consoles etc. We won't see them push the limit soon if ever again. They focus on low-mid range cards and hopefully keep value more in their mind unlike the 400-500+Vega fiasco where NV cards were actually in reality a better value :/ Ever since GCN, buying a new AMD card vs a new NV card is often not in favor of AMD, at least in EU.

I have nothing against a corporation investing resources into improving OSS and releasing the Q2RTX demo finally. Sure they slap branding and marketing on it, but then who wouldn't. As far as their other demos go... they haven't made any at all in generations: https://www.nvidia.com/coolstuff/demos Maxwell was the last.

Regular game devs... to be honest from what I see and read it's more turning into 3D modeling houses than game devs, they don't make their game engines anymore, they use free ones or get a license, Unity, Unreal, ... only the behemoths with established franchises have some of their own 3D engine.
Making adoption of new features in general left to those who make 3D game engines, such as Unity, Unreal, ...

Tracing has been around for decades, but no one yet invested enough in hardware accelerations and made it more accessible, NV now did because there is no competition on GPU market and they can charge what ever the hell they want for how ever little they want to offer.
And I won't disagree with your points aside from the 60fps one. 4k 60fps is the standard goal at this point. Those who play above 60fps at 1080p are rare, but those who request more than 60fps at 4k are pretty much in the .00001% group.

Again, I'm all for Ray Tracing to be done... properly. I've been gaming for over two decades and the while games do look good today I miss the jumps we had previously in the 80's to early 2000's. After X360 graphics have clearly improved but I don't get that fullfillment that I did going from SNES to N64 for example, let alone from N64 to GC, etc.


4k box
(22 items)
Oculus Box
(6 items)
CPU
4790k at 4.6ghz
Motherboard
Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 7
GPU
Sapphire Vega 64 1667mhz core / 1050 mem (reference air cooler)
RAM
G.Skill Trident X 16gb DDR3 2400mhz (2x8gb)
Hard Drive
Crucial M4 128gb
Hard Drive
Crucial MX100 256gb
Hard Drive
Crucial M500 480gb
Hard Drive
Crucial MX500 500gb
Hard Drive
Hyundai Sapphire 240gb
Hard Drive
Hyundai Sapphire 120gb
Optical Drive
LG Blu Ray RW
Power Supply
NZXT Hale82 850w
Cooling
Noctua NH-U12S
Case
Rosewill Thor V2 (Black)
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
ASUS PB287Q (4k)
Monitor
Dell Ultrasharp 1908FP
Keyboard
Corsair K55 RGB
Mouse
Fenek Swift Gaming Mouse - PMW 3360 Sensor
Mousepad
Steelseries QCK+
Audio
Creative SoundBlaster Z
Audio
Logitech Z-623
CPU
FX-9590
Motherboard
Asus Crosshair V Formula Z
GPU
Sapphire Pulse Vega 56 1590core/945mem
RAM
16gb DDR3 1866 cas9 (two dimms)
Cooling
AMD FX Watercooler (came with 9590)
Operating System
Win10 pro 64bit
CPU
Xeon E5450
CPU
Xeon E5450
Motherboard
Dell T7400 stock
GPU
XFX DD 7970Ghz Edition
RAM
32gb DDR2 667mhz Quad Channel (4gb x8)
Hard Drive
Hyundai Sapphire 240gb SSD
Power Supply
Dell T7400 stock 1000w PSU
Operating System
Win 10 Pro
▲ hide details ▲
SoloCamo is offline  
post #53 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 09:43 AM
Overclocker
 
JackCY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 9,280
Rep: 309 (Unique: 225)
Played a bit yesterday. 2560x1440px 80% scaling to stay around 70fps.

Starting location:
Q2VKPT 16xAF fixed denoiser with reinhard tonemap and bounces = 2, FOV 120, 2560x1440px, 20.5ms = 48.78fps
Q2RTX default all ON + medium GI, FOV 120, 2560x1440px 100% scaling, original environment, 43fps
Q2RTX default all ON + medium GI, FOV 120, 2560x1440px 100% scaling, stroggos noon, 36fps

Adding all those features does impact performance. Reflections, transparencies all seem to work, fully dynamic, haven't seen any game yet to fake that and there is no easy way to do so really (maybe that Crytek? AMD demo? will finally bring something). Only player's body seems some kinda hack.

RTX2070 19xxMHz/15.8GHz 200W limited, driver 430.97. This path tracing always shows memory controller loaded 50-55% or so, way above any rasterized game I've noticed.

4k60... for new games to be optimized for at mid range GPUs... I don't think were are there yet. Especially considering mid range GPUs now cost what high end used to. 4k60 is doable but people have to be sensible with quality settings.
Path tracing has plenty quality scaling but there is not much lower where to go, the temporal denoiser is already doing a crazy job.

Screenshots don't really do it justice either, biggest difference are dynamic objects, dynamic lights. Everything is getting lit and reflected dynamically as it's moving, you don't get the static baked in issues.

Rotating backlit fan reflecting on your weapon while it's also affecting lighting in the whole room, reflecting off of water surface, etc.
The NV's use of different models and textures along with new environment does kill the Quake look though a bit.

Rasterized games are gonna be around a while anyway and if we get anything it will be the 1-2 effects for now and even then at a high perf. cost... We would need a pure path tracing GPU and a complete shift to it from developers to get good performance.
JackCY is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #54 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 02:58 AM
mfw
 
ToTheSun!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Terra
Posts: 6,554
Rep: 367 (Unique: 193)
Quote: Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post
The tech is cool, but it's not visually ground breaking
Aren't you just glad you bought the V64 at $399 some months ago?

CPU
Intel 6700K
Motherboard
Asus Z170i
GPU
MSI 2080 Sea Hawk X
RAM
G.skill Trident Z 3200CL14 8+8
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
Hard Drive
Crucial M4 256GB
Power Supply
Corsair SF600
Cooling
Noctua NH C14S
Case
Fractal Design Core 500
Operating System
Windows 10 Education
Monitor
ViewSonic XG2703-GS
Keyboard
Ducky One 2 Mini
Mouse
Glorious Odin
Mousepad
Asus Scabbard
Audio
Fiio E17K v1.0 + Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO (B pads)
▲ hide details ▲
ToTheSun! is offline  
post #55 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 06:17 PM
Official Luddite of OCN
 
SoloCamo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 5,335
Rep: 409 (Unique: 213)
Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
Aren't you just glad you bought the V64 at $399 some months ago?
Yes, yes I am. I know I say it every other post and it get's old but hey, it took me over 5 years to upgrade let me have this


4k box
(22 items)
Oculus Box
(6 items)
CPU
4790k at 4.6ghz
Motherboard
Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 7
GPU
Sapphire Vega 64 1667mhz core / 1050 mem (reference air cooler)
RAM
G.Skill Trident X 16gb DDR3 2400mhz (2x8gb)
Hard Drive
Crucial M4 128gb
Hard Drive
Crucial MX100 256gb
Hard Drive
Crucial M500 480gb
Hard Drive
Crucial MX500 500gb
Hard Drive
Hyundai Sapphire 240gb
Hard Drive
Hyundai Sapphire 120gb
Optical Drive
LG Blu Ray RW
Power Supply
NZXT Hale82 850w
Cooling
Noctua NH-U12S
Case
Rosewill Thor V2 (Black)
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
ASUS PB287Q (4k)
Monitor
Dell Ultrasharp 1908FP
Keyboard
Corsair K55 RGB
Mouse
Fenek Swift Gaming Mouse - PMW 3360 Sensor
Mousepad
Steelseries QCK+
Audio
Creative SoundBlaster Z
Audio
Logitech Z-623
CPU
FX-9590
Motherboard
Asus Crosshair V Formula Z
GPU
Sapphire Pulse Vega 56 1590core/945mem
RAM
16gb DDR3 1866 cas9 (two dimms)
Cooling
AMD FX Watercooler (came with 9590)
Operating System
Win10 pro 64bit
CPU
Xeon E5450
CPU
Xeon E5450
Motherboard
Dell T7400 stock
GPU
XFX DD 7970Ghz Edition
RAM
32gb DDR2 667mhz Quad Channel (4gb x8)
Hard Drive
Hyundai Sapphire 240gb SSD
Power Supply
Dell T7400 stock 1000w PSU
Operating System
Win 10 Pro
▲ hide details ▲
SoloCamo is offline  
post #56 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:13 PM
Overclocker
 
JackCY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 9,280
Rep: 309 (Unique: 225)
At least you can watch RT gameplay on videos and photos, there is that, it's powerful enough for it.

Next up Half-Life path traced Come on Valve, do it.
JackCY is offline  
post #57 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 01:47 AM
mfw
 
ToTheSun!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Terra
Posts: 6,554
Rep: 367 (Unique: 193)
Quote: Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post
Yes, yes I am. I know I say it every other post and it get's old but hey, it took me over 5 years to upgrade let me have this
Fine. But ray/path tracing is revolutionary. Hybrid implementations may fail to impress, but, fortunately, that's not where the industry is headed.

Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Next up Half-Life path traced Come on Valve, do it.
That alone would be enough for me to replay it... for the 100th time.

CPU
Intel 6700K
Motherboard
Asus Z170i
GPU
MSI 2080 Sea Hawk X
RAM
G.skill Trident Z 3200CL14 8+8
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
Hard Drive
Crucial M4 256GB
Power Supply
Corsair SF600
Cooling
Noctua NH C14S
Case
Fractal Design Core 500
Operating System
Windows 10 Education
Monitor
ViewSonic XG2703-GS
Keyboard
Ducky One 2 Mini
Mouse
Glorious Odin
Mousepad
Asus Scabbard
Audio
Fiio E17K v1.0 + Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO (B pads)
▲ hide details ▲
ToTheSun! is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off