[G3D] American senator proposes bill against loot boxes in games - Page 5 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[G3D] American senator proposes bill against loot boxes in games

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post #41 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 07:07 PM
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The problem goes way deeper. I suggest a simple rule - of course impossible to implement, but hey, this bill won't go anywhere anyway with all the lobbying: ban any game where it turns out that the actual player is the publisher/developer instead of the customer who bought the game. Any time the conclusion after playing a game is: "Hey, I'm not playing this game, I'm being played!", ban hammer.

And still with the fast food / production line approach that many studios have towards certain franchises, even those games without loot boxes per se are entrenched and designed in a repetitive way where you're encouraged/required to perform the premise that leads to a lot of this addictive behaviour: open boxes / containers to retrieve loot - Rage 2 is the latest example. Why is so much stuff in boxes? Rage 2 is basically a generic brand Mad Max, it's a post-apocalyptic world, the last thing on anyone's checklist is to have perfectly constructed and labelled boxes laying around the wasteland.

Let's start by getting rid of this deeply entrenched thing of opening boxes left and right. And then let's ask Valve to say "We were wrong on that thing about hats. Sorry. Here is Half-Life 3."

Never going to happen (the part about the hats).

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post #42 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 06:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post
The problem goes way deeper. I suggest a simple rule - of course impossible to implement, but hey, this bill won't go anywhere anyway with all the lobbying: ban any game where it turns out that the actual player is the publisher/developer instead of the customer who bought the game. Any time the conclusion after playing a game is: "Hey, I'm not playing this game, I'm being played!", ban hammer.

And still with the fast food / production line approach that many studios have towards certain franchises, even those games without loot boxes per se are entrenched and designed in a repetitive way where you're encouraged/required to perform the premise that leads to a lot of this addictive behaviour: open boxes / containers to retrieve loot - Rage 2 is the latest example. Why is so much stuff in boxes? Rage 2 is basically a generic brand Mad Max, it's a post-apocalyptic world, the last thing on anyone's checklist is to have perfectly constructed and labelled boxes laying around the wasteland.

Let's start by getting rid of this deeply entrenched thing of opening boxes left and right. And then let's ask Valve to say "We were wrong on that thing about hats. Sorry. Here is Half-Life 3."

Never going to happen (the part about the hats).
it can't be generic if its made by the folks that made mad max. also, Mad Max wishes it had the story production value, and combat systems of Rage 2. While RAGE 2 wishes it had the open world interaction that Mad Max has... The difference here is that Rage's open world nonsense will get fixed. Mad Max will just keep being Mad Max. Something most folks never came close to finishing. RAGE 2 is much more entertaining than Mad Max, just use the Icarus to avoid the empty open world until they fix it.

actually, I guess it can...

Why so many boxes?

It's easier to design 4 kinds of boxes than to create 50 different items & position them all over the place. Compare the boxes to FO/ES style loot. It's a lazy thing.

I've been in rage for about 15 hours now, and I really don't get where all the hate is coming from. I didn't even know there were "Rage coins" in a store until I read it online. They aren't shoved in your face in any way shape or form, unlike Ubisoft.

I hate microtransactions, but rage 2 isn't a good example to roast, even if its the newest. Specially if you haven't played it & are just parroting what you've heard.

The game is incredibly short, even if you wanna 100% the world, and in doing so you get more than enough currency to max everything out long before the end of the game. I'm pointing this out for those that keep stating otherwise. They clearly haven't spent a moment in the title if they think rage is programmed in a way to exploit you into buying currency FOR A SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

I hate micro transactions, but I have zero problem with the way Rage did it. putting a currency you can buy into a 100% single player game has no effect on anyone else playing it, specially when the game isn't even remotely "grindy" it took me 30 minutes at Mutant Bash to get all the tokens I needed to fully level all my guns. And just to re-state, they don't even tell you rage 2 coins exist, you gotta go look for them.

compare that to AssCreed - the BEST loot is via RMT, and they advertise that fact with in-menu advertisements constantly. so, even though it's a single player game, you are in fact affected by not giving them money as then you'll never have access to the BEST LOOT.

Rage only did this with the BFG, and its tied to the per-order, not the store.

I wonder if BL3 will make use of their classic Loot Crate RNG Slot machine system?

If so, I expect the same folks in here bashing on rage 2 to literally burn BL3 copies in the streets as the BL Loot Crate system is an abomination, specially since BL2 is a co-op title. You wouldn't even know RAGE has microtransactions if you just got the game & played it, instead of going off looking for negative press. n holy hell is the BL series 10x more grindy than anything Rage could ever come up with. so really, as offending goes, Rage 2 barely scratches the surface of Micro Transaction bullshart.

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Last edited by skupples; 05-17-2019 at 06:53 AM.
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post #43 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 08:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
Spoiler!


You read way more into what I said than what I actually said or meant, so I'll clarify my position: I wasn't comparing Rage 2 to Mad Max, the 2015 game, but the fact that Rage 2 (and the first one) is a generic brand Mad Max in a general sense of the Mad Max post apocalyptic franchise. Also, I didn't criticize Rage 2 for the specific microtransactions that are in place or will eventually be added, although I do think that they shouldn't be a thing in my opinion, period. I mentioned Rage 2 because of the basic premise of adding boxes to games that incentivizes this collective "unboxing therapy" behaviour, which then paves the way for the rest to come in a general sense. Yes, I would have preferred that games are a little more realistic in that sense too, you're in a wasteland, have the scraps/ loot / weapons laying around as they would, not in conveniently packaged and coloured boxes.

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post #44 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 11:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post
This would be enraging if it wasn't so incredibly ironic to see an American politician lashing out at a "pay-to-win" system. Makes it hard not to crack a smile when you're thinking about the situation. They never seem to run out of ways to waste tax dollars but trying to pass laws to protect people from their own stupidity is one of the more popular ways of doing it. If you need to sell a pile of poop to the american public, all you need to do is...



Gets them every time.


I'm curious as to what the rider is that they are trying to sneak through with this bill.
No one is lashing out at "pay-to-win", regulators are simply stepping in to regulate the illegal gambling that is taking place on a large skill under the guise of "Loot Boxes". These developers that are making Billions have hired the same people that design gambling games, to design these "Loot" systems. The same psychologists, mathematicians, systems engineers, etc, from the gambling industry in order to maximize the systems in their favors.

Loot boxes are, blatantly, gambling. It needs to be regulated as such.
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post #45 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 11:51 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diffident View Post
I have a simple solution. If you don't like loot boxes, don't buy any, also don't give your kid your credit card. Problem solved.
Except that games are designed around lootboxes nowadays and NOT buying lootboxes either breaks the game or really hampers your enjoyment.
Just look at shadows of war or Battlefront 2 that required to redesign their whole system when they removed lootboxes.
if only it was as easy as "not buying lootboxes".

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post #46 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 01:07 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Assirra View Post
Except that games are designed around lootboxes nowadays and NOT buying lootboxes either breaks the game or really hampers your enjoyment.
Just look at shadows of war or Battlefront 2 that required to redesign their whole system when they removed lootboxes.
if only it was as easy as "not buying lootboxes".
To be fair, if the game "requires" the purchase of loot boxes, then don't buy the game altogether.

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post #47 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 01:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
To be fair, if the game "requires" the purchase of loot boxes, then don't buy the game altogether.
Easier said and done. Did you know BF2 would be such a loot box money grabbing game before buying it? Did the publisher said "you will need to buy boxes to enjoy the game" in their PR releases?

You only know how much the system is a money grab post buying the game.
And people rush to pre-order games before reviews are out, to grab that cool outfit or cool "exclusive" item.

In order to really fight it, you need people to 1. not pre-order anything, 2. wait for detailed not payed reviews, 3. act mature and really think things through.
Afraid so far, despite the "don't pre-order" movement, seems like it doesn't work, and the game studios know it, which is why people fall for it so much.


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post #48 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 02:53 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
In order to really fight it, you need people to 1. not pre-order anything, 2. wait for detailed not payed reviews, 3. act mature and really think things through.
So, you do understand the point.

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post #49 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Assirra View Post
Except that games are designed around lootboxes nowadays and NOT buying lootboxes either breaks the game or really hampers your enjoyment.
Just look at shadows of war or Battlefront 2 that required to redesign their whole system when they removed lootboxes.
if only it was as easy as "not buying lootboxes".

Sounds like excuses to me. I've never bought a lootbox, I have no plan of ever buying one.

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post #50 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 12:39 PM
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i don't agree what so ever with Shadow of War being severely hampered by loot boxes. I've completed it on all difficulties with only what the game provides. Interesting none the less. i completely missed all that from Shadow of War... even the redesign. Likely cuz I beat it every way till sunday way before that came into fruition.

still - loot boxes suck.

Loot boxes are generally an issue in titles with any form of MP. Co-op or PvP.

The biggest offender in the PVE realm is BL series. Single player / co-op, yet loaded down with stupid slot machine "here the first 10 keys are free!" nonsense.

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