[BBC] Loot boxes: Lords call for 'immediate' gambling regulation - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[BBC] Loot boxes: Lords call for 'immediate' gambling regulation

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post #21 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 04:12 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
Regulating gambling as gambling, because gambling is what gambling is, sounds like a good decision to me, regardless of intention.

But, after reading your post, you seem to be conflating "regulating" with "banning." They're not the same.

When most people say "regulating" of loot boxes, they want banning of loot boxes. How else are you going to regulate it? Regulating of gambling comprises of two things; the government taking a majority of all winnings and also putting an age restriction on who can participate. The first does nothing for regular people, the government just gets their cut. Putting a sticker on the box doesn't really guarantee anything. It's not the same as having someone show ID when entering a casino. Banning is the more likely scenario.


Quote: Originally Posted by S.M. View Post
Yes we can, they are called initiatives. They are designed to do explicitly that.

Why are you defending loot boxes? They are quite literally UNREGULATED GAMBLING (illegal) and targeted at children.

I'm not defending loot boxes. I'm defending people's freedom of choice. I'm sure some people enjoy games with loot boxes. I don't care if a game has loot boxes unless it prohibits me from finishing the game without buying them. I have self control, I'm not an attention whore, I don't need fancy skins to show off.

I'm fine with anyone wanting to "regulate" loot boxes to protect children even though I don't see how children are getting a credit card to buy in game currency to buy loot boxes. But I feel, for people on this forum, this wasn't their original motivation for wanting loot boxes "regulated". Banning anything because of personal distaste has always rubbed me the wrong way.


People have also been trying to ban violent games for years, and this has been the argument.

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post #22 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 04:42 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diffident View Post
When most people say "regulating" of loot boxes, they want banning of loot boxes. How else are you going to regulate it? Regulating of gambling comprises of two things; the government taking a majority of all winnings and also putting an age restriction on who can participate. The first does nothing for regular people, the government just gets their cut. Putting a sticker on the box doesn't really guarantee anything. It's not the same as having someone show ID when entering a casino. Banning is the more likely scenario.





I'm not defending loot boxes. I'm defending people's freedom of choice. I'm sure some people enjoy games with loot boxes. I don't care if a game has loot boxes unless it prohibits me from finishing the game without buying them. I have self control, I'm not an attention whore, I don't need fancy skins to show off.

I'm fine with anyone wanting to "regulate" loot boxes to protect children even though I don't see how children are getting a credit card to buy in game currency to buy loot boxes. But I feel, for people on this forum, this wasn't their original motivation for wanting loot boxes "regulated". Banning anything because of personal distaste has always rubbed me the wrong way.


People have also been trying to ban violent games for years, and this has been the argument.
I don't want nor need them to be banned. In fact, I really don't care whether they're removed from games or not. But if they're gambling, and they are, they should be treated as gambling.

But, to be fair to the people who do want them banned from games, loot boxes bring absolutely no tangible value to the experience. Banning games because they're violent means you'd, best case, have less artistic expression or, worst case, be unable to release a title altogether. It's not a good comparison at all.

If loot boxes disappeared entirely, absolutely nothing would be lost.

The one seemingly legitimate argument I've seen FOR loot boxes in games is the fact that the increased revenue could help finance game development, which means the consumer would have a better experience most of the time. But we've seen, time and time again, that the extra profits go to the pockets of upper management and not to the improvement of games, and that good games CAN be made well in a modern context without needing to milk whales.

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post #23 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diffident View Post
I'm not defending loot boxes. I'm defending people's freedom of choice. (etc.)

I think you jut enjoy being a contrarian.

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post #24 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 05:14 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
I don't want nor need them to be banned. In fact, I really don't care whether they're removed from games or not. But if they're gambling, and they are, they should be treated as gambling.

But, to be fair to the people who do want them banned from games, loot boxes bring absolutely no tangible value to the experience. Banning games because they're violent means you'd, best case, have less artistic expression or, worst case, be unable to release a title altogether. It's not a good comparison at all.

If loot boxes disappeared entirely, absolutely nothing would be lost.

The one seemingly legitimate argument I've seen FOR loot boxes in games is the fact that the increased revenue could help finance game development, which means the consumer would have a better experience most of the time. But we've seen, time and time again, that the extra profits go to the pockets of upper management and not to the improvement of games, and that good games CAN be made well in a modern context without needing to milk whales.
I don't know if the loot boxes are necessary to the finance games, not all games have them and the ones that do seem to be the high sellers anyway. But I agree nothing would be lost. To replace it, they would just have an in game store selling all items and they would still make just as much.


Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
I think you jut enjoy being a contrarian.
No, I believe in individual freedom. I don't like having others dictate what I can and can not do, because of personal distaste, if me engaging in that activity doesn't infringe on your rights in any way.

For the record, I don't like loot boxes either.

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post #25 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 06:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diffident View Post
I don't know if the loot boxes are necessary to the finance games, not all games have them and the ones that do seem to be the high sellers anyway. But I agree nothing would be lost. To replace it, they would just have an in game store selling all items and they would still make just as much.



No, I believe in individual freedom. I don't like having others dictate what I can and can not do, because of personal distaste, if me engaging in that activity doesn't infringe on your rights in any way.

For the record, I don't like loot boxes either.
I am going to have to break your illusion in that case.
In this world we got something like laws. Your "freedom" doesn't mean anything against said laws.
In this case it's illegal gambling in all but name. In fact it is even worse than gambling since you cannot cash out. All other elements are exactly like gambling.
Now back to the laws. You cannot advertise gambling to children, it's the same reason that despite you stamping your feet and wanting to go in a casino on your own as a child they won't let you in. Your "freedom" means nothing here.

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post #26 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 07:16 AM
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My issue with lootboxes is two fold.
First and foremost, there are millions of dollars spent on how to entice and manipulate people.
I was dragged to a seminar by a friend and the topic was loot boxes and the addiction associated with this phenomenon.
I was shocked at how extensive this industry is and how manipulative the products are.
While some can 'control' themselves, this gaming model is the biggest success since we decided to come out of the water and settle on land.
Some people have gone so far down the rabbit hole, they caused issues to their families.
It is easy to say 'bad parenting' or ' you should have put better parental controls' but it will not change the situation that people are targeted for a reason : addiction.
This addiction will then be exploited with help of sociological factors such as 'social pressure' and 'influencers'.
If companies want to continue using said model, rating agencies and policies need to be clear on the matter.

My other gripe with lootboxes is the quick and constant cash injection which leads to more and more resources allocated to this aspect of the game.
Quality has gone down pretty much everywhere but in the gaming industry they end up charging you 71 EUR for a few skins in Valorant.
Of course, nobody is forcing you to buy them but many people do leading to an evolution of said model.
Instead of quality content, well designed products, we are nickled and dimed like whales for that bottom line.

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post #27 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 07:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Assirra View Post
I am going to have to break your illusion in that case.
In this world we got something like laws. Your "freedom" doesn't mean anything against said laws.
In this case it's illegal gambling in all but name. In fact it is even worse than gambling since you cannot cash out. All other elements are exactly like gambling.
Now back to the laws. You cannot advertise gambling to children, it's the same reason that despite you stamping your feet and wanting to go in a casino on your own as a child they won't let you in. Your "freedom" means nothing here.

When did I say this?

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post #28 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 09:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diffident View Post
When did I say this?
You didn't. It it just exact same law that should have applied here the second these lootboxes were invented and starting to target children.

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post #29 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 02:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diffident View Post
Do you want loot boxes regulated because you're concerned about young people? Or, do want loot boxes regulated because it's a game feature you don't like?



Be honest.
The regulation would concern your first point. I definitely don't like the feature if it turns the game into heavily pay to win, or unduly locks what should be regular game features behind RNG loot boxes but that's not really what should be up for regulation. If it doesn't do that then I don't care and can safely ignore them. Though to be fair, I don't really play games with lootboxes.

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post #30 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 05:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Diffident View Post
Do you want loot boxes regulated because you're concerned about young people? Or, do want loot boxes regulated because it's a game feature you don't like?



Be honest.
As we all know, it can only be one thing. Either you like it and hate young people, or you love young people and hate loot boxes.

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