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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 05:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bleets View Post
Actually @white owl it was the RAM.
Since it had issues on 2 other PC's. I know how to test hardware to figure out what's faulty, I did it for over a decade for work

And I don't agree with being disappointed when you go for the name on the sticker. But it's picking the right products too. There's nothing wrong at all with having a brand preference if you've used something for a long time and you like the products.
You don't have to agree, Corsair, EVGA, Seasonic, doesn't matter, each one of them has some really crappy PSUs for sale despite having some products that are excellent. Some even venture into rebranding crappy AIOs. Hell Asus makes some absolute garbage boards while also making some of the best boards. GPUs as well.

And if all these PCs had an issue with the ram, how did they manage to test it?

But I guess it's a good thing we have brand loyal people, if no one was buying sub-par products with a nice sticker these companies might loose market share in a segment and might not be able to provide the better components they make. Who's going to be able to make and sell really good products if they can't sell crappy ones too, right?

Quote: Originally Posted by SpeedyVT
If you're not doing extreme things to parts for the sake of extreme things regardless of the part you're not a real overclocker.
Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
The key is generally not which brands are good but which specific products are. Motherboards and GPUs are perfect examples of companies having everything from golden to garbage function/quality.
Hot n Bothered
(12 items)
CPU
4790k 4.7Ghz
Motherboard
Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkII 2
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080 SC
RAM
16gb G.Skill Sniper 2400Mhz
Hard Drive
2x Kingston v300 120gb RAID 0
Hard Drive
WD Blue
Power Supply
Seasonic 620w M12 II EVO
Cooling
Cooler Master 212 Evo
Case
Corsair 450D
Operating System
Windows 10
Monitor
Nixeus EDG27
Other
I have pretty lights.
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by white owl; 07-29-2018 at 05:26 AM.
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 06:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bleets View Post
I just wish FD fitted their cases with taller feet for carpet users...

I always get something like these for the case to sit on to raise it up a bit

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CARPET-SAVE...dp/B00I9VGEES/
I use open center caster bases under my computers .. or simply mount casters on bottom instead of feet. This give me 32-50mm of free airflow area to bottom vents as well as makes it so much easier to move case whenever I need to.
Here is link to what they look like and here is link to building guide..

I used to make and sell these for specific cases to peeps in UK, but haven't done any in a couple of years now.

Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
You don't have to agree, Corsair, EVGA, Seasonic, doesn't matter, each one of them has some really crappy PSUs for sale despite having some products that are excellent. Some even venture into rebranding crappy AIOs. Hell Asus makes some absolute garbage boards while also making some of the best boards. GPUs as well.

And if all these PCs had an issue with the ram, how did they manage to test it?

But I guess it's a good thing we have brand loyal people, if no one was buying sub-par products with a nice sticker these companies might loose market share in a segment and might not be able to provide the better components they make. Who's going to be able to make and sell really good products if they can't sell crappy ones too, right?
Indeed! Even the best of companies have the odd product that is not up to standards .. although I think Seasonic PSUs are all better than some of the garbage sold as PSUs .. Noctua are all at least decent .. assuming buyer doesn't by commercial fans expecting them to be as quiet as good consumer fans are. Some brand like Asetek, Corsair, Thermaltake, etc. are known for poor quality while others like Noctua, Thermalright, Phanteks, Lian Li, Cryorig, and Silverstone have mostly good products .. then there are the mediocre brands like CoolerMaster, Alpenfohn, etc. But equally important is customer support. Most companies with good products have good customer support but a few don't .. while there are a few with good support with poor products .. but not many.

I'm going to assume you know the difference between CLCs and AIOs that are not CLCs. I agree CLCs are crap, but there are a few AIOs that are decent quality. Many of us here and on other sites use 'AIO' only for AIOs with fill port, copper radiator, threaded fittings, and pumps that move 2+ times as much coolant as CLCs do.

The key is generally not which brands are good but which specific products are. Motherboards and GPUs are perfect examples of companies having everything from golden to garbage function/quality.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base

Last edited by doyll; 07-29-2018 at 06:21 AM.
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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that's some funky engineering...and yeah it's probably a lot easier than the carpet saves because I have to lift the case up to sit it back on them every time I move it...but it's a LOT less effort
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 06:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bleets View Post
that's some funky engineering...and yeah it's probably a lot easier than the carpet saves because I have to lift the case up to sit it back on them every time I move it...but it's a LOT less effort
I agree, it's quite a bit of work to make a base like the ones I did. I would setup and make 5-10 at a time to get the labor down to reasonable amount .. and it still too about 5 hours per unit with finish taking as much time as assembly did .. and finding void-less baltic birch plywood isn't always easy either.

There are a few caster bases for things like fridges and other appliances that can be modified to fit under cases without too much work.

4 hockey pucks (78x25mm) work well too.
Or spray can caps (can be filled with plaster or used empty), little kids blocks, big bottle caps, etc. There are all kinds of spacers out there if we think outside the box.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
I agree, it's quite a bit of work to make a base like the ones I did. I would setup and make 5-10 at a time to get the labor down to reasonable amount .. and it still too about 5 hours per unit with finish taking as much time as assembly did .. and finding void-less baltic birch plywood isn't always easy either.

There are a few caster bases for things like fridges and other appliances that can be modified to fit under cases without too much work.

4 hockey pucks (78x25mm) work well too.
Or spray can caps (can be filled with plaster or used empty), little kids blocks, big bottle caps, etc. There are all kinds of spacers out there if we think outside the box.
I thought I was thinking outside the box with the carpet protectors! But I like the hockey puck idea since they're thicker...hmmmm... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tebery-Clas...dp/B073DYJ29M/ not toooo expensive either...
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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 07:33 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Even the best of companies have the odd product that is not up to standards ..
Having worked with a bunch of these companies, and knowing that you have as well.....we both know that there are two very diverse views when releasing products that test out to be subpar. One side, which is the vast minority, says "our name isn't going on that" and it never gets released, or is pulled when the issue is discovered. The majority goes something like this:

Maketing - "HUGE profit margin, and these kids will buy anything we put in a box, get it to market ASAP!!!!".
R&D - "But it doesn't work as intended. Actually, 25% of the first run we tested failed immediately and poured out blue smoke when connected."
Marketing - "Then add RGB!"
R&D - "Ok....if you say so"

Knowing who is who is really helpful when doing a build. The problem with tech moving as quickly as it does is that pre-release testing is often nowhere near as lengthy as it should be. You can't test the results of three years of usage on every product as the item would be outdated prior to it being released.

Yeah....the little girl hentai avatar is really creeping me out....

Last edited by ciarlatano; 07-29-2018 at 07:38 AM.
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 09:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post
Having worked with a bunch of these companies, and knowing that you have as well.....we both know that there are two very diverse views when releasing products that test out to be subpar. One side, which is the vast minority, says "our name isn't going on that" and it never gets released, or is pulled when the issue is discovered. The majority goes something like this:

Maketing - "HUGE profit margin, and these kids will buy anything we put in a box, get it to market ASAP!!!!".
R&D - "But it doesn't work as intended. Actually, 25% of the first run we tested failed immediately and poured out blue smoke when connected."
Marketing - "Then add RGB!"
R&D - "Ok....if you say so"

Knowing who is who is really helpful when doing a build. The problem with tech moving as quickly as it does is that pre-release testing is often nowhere near as lengthy as it should be. You can't test the results of three years of usage on every product as the item would be outdated prior to it being released.
Indeed, I saw this big time in arcade games, especially pinball games. For many years many years ago I worked for big arcade game company leasing games to end users. We would get new games as soon as manufacturing / owning company had them build and often spent a couple months in our shops being tested and fixed to get them working enough of the time to be put out on location, and even then we often were called out to 'fix' whatever. caused them to stop working. Even video games were often problematic on first release, but in order to have newest arcade games/rides out and making money whe had to do a lot of tech that should have been done by source instead of after sale.

The few companies I listed before are only the ones that came to mind first. There are others as well .. too many to try and list them all. Basically companies that give good customer support will not release a product that is not tested and known to be fit for purpose .. as apposed to all the 'warranty' CLCs a certain company had to replace and sold thousands of new ones as 'refurbished' to avoid long term warranty because refurbs only had 90 days warranty instead of 5 years on 'new' ones.

I can definitely understand how a business that evolves as fast as computer tech does needing to get a product to market as quickly as possible .. both to keep up with other cutting edge releases and to recoup development costs .. only to have a problem surface after release. The difference is good companies only have this sort of problem on rare occasion and prompty stop sales, resolve problem and replace defective product .. often giving buyer the option of a refund instead of waiting for fix. Having one product do this will cost most of a years profit for some of them, but they want it done right or not at all .. they want to give us a quality product.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
I'm going to assume you know the difference between CLCs and AIOs that are not CLCs. I agree CLCs are crap, but there are a few AIOs that are decent quality. Many of us here and on other sites use 'AIO' only for AIOs with fill port, copper radiator, threaded fittings, and pumps that move 2+ times as much coolant as CLCs do.
Yeah I know the difference but can you please tell me who makes good CLCs?! PLEASE!


Every time someone asks for help with component selection the inevitable happens...no matter the cooler selected they'll say "I think I'll go with a 240mm Corsair unit instead" as if they can't cobble a computer together by reading reviews but they know 100% for a fact that Corsair makes the best cooling products known to man.
I need the names of good AIOs to tell them, since I like air cooling I don't actually know the names. I just tell them about the many Corsair pump failure and insufficient mounting pressure threads I've seen.

Why anyone would buy a temporary $150 cooler that performs the same as a permanent $70 air cooler is beyond me...


EDIT: Welcome to my sig!

Quote: Originally Posted by SpeedyVT
If you're not doing extreme things to parts for the sake of extreme things regardless of the part you're not a real overclocker.
Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
The key is generally not which brands are good but which specific products are. Motherboards and GPUs are perfect examples of companies having everything from golden to garbage function/quality.
Hot n Bothered
(12 items)
CPU
4790k 4.7Ghz
Motherboard
Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkII 2
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080 SC
RAM
16gb G.Skill Sniper 2400Mhz
Hard Drive
2x Kingston v300 120gb RAID 0
Hard Drive
WD Blue
Power Supply
Seasonic 620w M12 II EVO
Cooling
Cooler Master 212 Evo
Case
Corsair 450D
Operating System
Windows 10
Monitor
Nixeus EDG27
Other
I have pretty lights.
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by white owl; 07-29-2018 at 05:25 PM.
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 06:21 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
Yeah I know the difference but can you please tell me who makes good CLCs?! PLEASE!


Every time someone asks for help with component selection the inevitable happens...no matter the cooler selected they'll say "I think I'll go with a 240mm Corsair unit instead" as if they can't cobble a computer together by reading reviews but they know 100% for a fact that Corsair makes the best cooling products known to man.
I need the names of good AIOs to tell them, since I like air cooling I don't actually know the names. I just tell them about the many Corsair pump failure and insufficient mounting pressure threads I've seen.

Why anyone would buy a temporary $150 cooler that performs the same as a permanent $70 air cooler is beyond me...


EDIT: Welcome to my sig!
Short answer is Swiftech is the only good AIO if you are in USA and there are no good CLCs that I know of.

CLCs by simply not having a fill plug for topping up coolant means they are no good. This is because liquid that evaporates out of system though hoses, fittings, etc. has no way of being replaced .. and if system is being used on a high wattage CPU / GPU (like when overclocked) there will be coolant loss and system will gradually become low on coolant, and in 1-2 years with no way to top it up the pump gets air into it and dies. Okay, some last longer but most of the long lasting ones are not high wattage. Most CLCs sold are made by Asetek with CoolerMaster and CoolIT also making some, with Dynatron, maybe DeepCool and Apaltek making very few. There are probably some others being made & marketed in Asia that I don't know about. Asetek has USA patent on CLCs with pump on waterblock, so all pump on waterblock CLCs sold in USA are either Asetek or paying Asetek patent royalties. I believe Swiftech was the first to use the pump on waterblock in their original AIO, but chose to stop making it when Asetek filed suit against them .. Swiftech unit had fill plug, threaded fittings, copper radiator, etc. But because pump was on waterblock it was considered patent infringement in USA.

CoolerMaster had to pay $600,000.00 to Asetek for patent infringment for making and selling the design Swiftech originally made. I don't know when Asetek applied for USA patent, but EU patent was applied for in Novermber 2004, but The Hague's court in Netherlands. Cooler Master's argument that they too have a similar patent to Asetek's, through a so-called "utility model" that already exists in China, which describes (and patents really show their problems here) the "operation of a water pumping engine device with chamber". The Hague judge also invalidated Asetek's patent lawsuit on the basis that there was not enough inventiveness to it. Asetelk had to pay CoolerMaster $134,204 to cover their legal fees against patent infringement. To the best of my knowledge the Swiftech H220 pump on waterblock (similar to CoolerMaster's) was first made and sold in 2005. I believe Asetek patent US 8,240,362 applied for in 2003-11-07 is the patent for pump on waterblock concept.

The best AIO are still Swiftech .. their H series. be quiet! Silent Loop (made by Alphacool) are also good, but other Alphacool AIOs don't seem to be as good .. combined with Alphacool having horrible customer support means not good. Alphacool made AIOs are not sold in USA because of Asetek's USA patent on pump on waterbo=lcok concept.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 06:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
Yeah I know the difference but can you please tell me who makes good CLCs?! PLEASE!


Every time someone asks for help with component selection the inevitable happens...no matter the cooler selected they'll say "I think I'll go with a 240mm Corsair unit instead" as if they can't cobble a computer together by reading reviews but they know 100% for a fact that Corsair makes the best cooling products known to man.
I need the names of good AIOs to tell them, since I like air cooling I don't actually know the names. I just tell them about the many Corsair pump failure and insufficient mounting pressure threads I've seen.

Why anyone would buy a temporary $150 cooler that performs the same as a permanent $70 air cooler is beyond me...


EDIT: Welcome to my sig!
Who makes a good CLC? Well, first we would have to figure out what would constitute a good CLC. Longevity? Better noise/performance than similarly priced air coolers? Better cost/performance than air? More RGB lights?

The funny part is when you see people making comparisons between the Corsair, NZXT, Cryorig, EVGA, etc.....when they are all the same unit with different logos.

Yeah....the little girl hentai avatar is really creeping me out....
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