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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Optical drive bay usage (fan placement)

Hi guys,

I was just curious how many other users have removed their 5,25" optical CD/DVD drive bays for something else?
I added more fans. I have tried to show my setup with a 2D picture of the case, blue represents cool air, red - hot.
The front fan mesh is from an old Thermal Take case, but funny enough fits fine where the optical DVD drive would normally be mounted.

Intake
1 x 200 mm (stock - front panel)
1 x 140 mm (front panel)
1 x 120 mm (stacked with the front 140mm for more concentrated airflow)
1 x 140 mm (side panel - forgot to draw it on the pic)
1 x 140 mm (down panel)

Exhaust
1 x 140 mm (stock - back panel)
3 x 120 mm (upper panel)

Temps are (ambient temperature 24 ºC)
CPU 4770 idle 32 ºC, load 55 ºC [32 ºC = 89 ºF | 55 ºC = 131 ºF]
GPU 1080TI idle 35 ºC, load 45 ºC (custom fan curve) [35 ºC = 95 ºF | 45 ºC = 113 ºF]

The case is practically silent if I am using the first mode with the integrated fan controller, I think it's like 3 or 5 V.
I have to check and see if the LEDs are on in order to be able determine weather the PC is powered on or not. I can not judge by the noise alone.
When I am gaming I crank up the controller to 2 as the game sounds are much louder than the fans anyway.
Now the case has only 1 "unofficial spot" left for a fan - under the GPU marked in purple, but i wont even bother at this point i have installed more than enough i think, lol.
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PC1: ASRock ION330, 640 GB WD Black, 2GB DDR3 A-Data | 24" Iiyama E2482HS-1
PC2: ASUS H87I-Plus, Intel i7 4770 + NH-U14, 2x8GB Corsair | MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB | 128 GB Kingston, 480 GB Sandisk | Corsair HX750i | NZXT 530 BLCK | 27" Dell S2740L
PC3: ASRock A320M Pro4 | AMD Ryzen5 1400 + NH-U12S SE-AM4 | 2x8GB DDR4 Vengeance 2400 MHz | MSI GeForce GTX 1060 Mini 6GB | SSD 525GB Crucial MX300 | Seasonic SSR-650FX Gold | Zalman Z1 | 27" Iiyama B2776HDS

Last edited by petkow; 08-20-2018 at 01:48 AM. Reason: added pic
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 03:54 AM
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Your temps are good, but your fan layout is way more than needed .. and I don't know how good the fans you are using really are. Many standard case fans are almost worthless. Sorry to be so opinionated about your system. It iis obvious you have put a lot of though and used a lot of logic to setup your system's airflow .. and obviously it's working.
All that follows is how you can likely get even better cooling with less noise .. assuming you even want to.
Your 200mm is hopefully moving as much air as a good 140mm fans normally does.
The 140mm + 120mm stacked has 120mm doing nothing if 140mm fan is any good. For stacking to help airflow there has to be an airflow straightener (like raidator) between fans to get any improvement.
Your 2x top fans toward front of case are pulling the cool air coming in the 5.25" bay vent fan (assuming front door is open) right out the top before it gets to cool anything and moving the intake air from 200mm up and into CPU cooler.
The bottom intake fan is good but would do much better if you raised your case up with some spacer blocks under the feet so there is 35-45mm of space between case bottom and what case sets on.
Removing all PCIe back slot covers will give you about as much additional rear vent area the top one has and greatly improve front to back airflow around GPU .. and likey lower temps.
Much of the above is in 'How Case Airflow Works' and 'Setting Up a Case for Optimum Airflow' link below
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html

And case bottom spacing:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22657923-post15.html

If you are interested, here's link to how fans' airflow and static pressure ratings actually work in use and how P/Q curve gives us a much better idea of what fan is doing at a given speed. Problem is almost all published data on fans is only at full speed .. and most of us rarely if ever run our fans at full speed.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22644574-post11.html

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base

Last edited by doyll; 08-20-2018 at 03:58 AM.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Thanks for your reply.
Quote:
Many standard case fans are almost worthless.
I am aware of that. My case came with a total of two stock fans, which have sleeve bearing and provide good balance between airflow CFM per watt and decent noise levels (at least if you look on the label).
Still I have resorted to using only one of the stock fans, the 200 mm one. All others you see are after-market, added by me. I have listed what types of fans I am using below:

Intake
1 x 200 mm (stock - front panel) - NZXT FN 200
1 x 140 mm (front panel) ARCTIC F14 140
1 x 120 mm (stacked with the front 140mm for more concentrated airflow) - Cooler Master SickleFlow 120 (the useless one)
1 x 140 mm (side panel - forgot to draw it on the pic) - NZXT FZ-140
1 x 140 mm (down panel) NZXT FZ-140

Exhaust
1 x 140 mm (stock - back panel) NZXT FZ-140
3 x 120 mm (upper panel) 1 x ARCTIC F14 140, 2 x Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentFan XL-1 120mm

Quote:
The bottom intake fan is good but would do much better if you raised your case up with some spacer blocks under the feet so there is 35-45mm of space between case bottom and what case sets on.

I am using "spacer blocks" indeed, perhaps not clearly seen by the pictures. My PC is raised a good 4 cm from the desk to allow for air intake.
My spacer blocks are dumbbell bolts like those
Quote:
Removing all PCIe back slot covers will give you about as much additional rear vent area the top one has and greatly improve front to back airflow around GPU .. and likey lower temps.
Those are already removed (guess not easy to see from my pics) and this is where I have put the purple colored "fan placement" from my original post.

Quote:
, but your fan layout is way more than needed
I was almost about to title my post "am I overdoing things", thanks for the confirmation, haha!

Quote:
For stacking to help airflow there has to be an airflow straightener (like raidator) between fans to get any improvement.
This is something I learned today, great!

I shall explore the resources provided to educate myself. AFAIK briefly put 2/3 of the tips you gave me I have already applied, yeeey!

That being said, I am not really looking for optimization atm, just wondering how popular is the "mod" i did with ripping out the DVD and putting fan(s) there ?

PC1: ASRock ION330, 640 GB WD Black, 2GB DDR3 A-Data | 24" Iiyama E2482HS-1
PC2: ASUS H87I-Plus, Intel i7 4770 + NH-U14, 2x8GB Corsair | MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB | 128 GB Kingston, 480 GB Sandisk | Corsair HX750i | NZXT 530 BLCK | 27" Dell S2740L
PC3: ASRock A320M Pro4 | AMD Ryzen5 1400 + NH-U12S SE-AM4 | 2x8GB DDR4 Vengeance 2400 MHz | MSI GeForce GTX 1060 Mini 6GB | SSD 525GB Crucial MX300 | Seasonic SSR-650FX Gold | Zalman Z1 | 27" Iiyama B2776HDS

Last edited by petkow; 08-20-2018 at 05:44 AM.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 05:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by petkow View Post
Hi,
"The bottom intake fan is good but would do much better if you raised your case up with some spacer blocks under the feet so there is 35-45mm of space between case bottom and what case sets on. "

Removing all PCIe back slot covers will give you about as much additional rear vent area the top one has and greatly improve front to back airflow around GPU .. and likey lower temps.

I am using spacer blocks indeed, perhaps not clearly seen by the pictures. my PC is raised a good 4.5 cm from the desk to allow for air intake. I was almost about to title my post "am I overdoing things", thanks for the confirmation, haha!
Briefly put 2/3 of the tips you gave me I have already applied, yeeey!

The fans are the following models:

Intake
1 x 200 mm (stock - front panel) - NZXT FN 200
1 x 140 mm (front panel) ARCTIC F14 140
1 x 120 mm (stacked with the front 140mm for more concentrated airflow) - Cooler Master SickleFlow 120
1 x 140 mm (side panel - forgot to draw it on the pic) - NZXT FZ-140
1 x 140 mm (down panel) NZXT FZ-140

Exhaust
1 x 140 mm (stock - back panel) NZXT FZ-140
3 x 120 mm (upper panel) 1 x ARCTIC F14 140, 2 x Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentFan XL-1 120mm

I shall explore the resources provided to educate myself.
That being said, I am not really looking for optimization atm, just wondering how popular is the "mod" i did with ripping out the DVD and putting fan(s) there ?
Yeah, I noticed you were definitely trying to think this out and get the best.
Problem is airflow is a fickled witch often does not do what we logically thing it will .. but usually we can figure out why she's doing what she does after we see it happening.

Stacking the 120mm fan with 140mm is almost definitely not increasing airflow, but it will increase noise. Basic reason is fans create a spinning / spiraling airflow so 2nd fan is only spinning the air the same as first fan. Now if you had a airflow straightener between them (like a radiator) it will help a little but not much.

NZXT FN 200 makes 1.82mm H2O at full speed, so not bad. We need case fans to make a minimum of about 1.4-1.5mm H2O @ about 1300-1400rpm.

NZXT FZ-140 are basically worthless making a wimple 0.71mm H2O .. about half of what is needed for decent case fans. I'm guessing with normal 1.4-1.5mm H2O intake fans this FZ-140 is doing nothing but make noise and disrupt airflow. Easy way to find out is un-plug them and see if temps change.

Removing the 5.25" drives and using 3x of them as a vent is something many of us did, but many new cases don't have 5.25" bays anymore .. or only one .. at most 2.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Great, I shall get me some sweet Noctua-s to even things out, whenever I get inspired!

I can also try to place the 120 mm cooler master where the purple spot below the GPU is, that way it won't get in the way of the 140 mm one and will possibly help the GPU's fans. (GPU cooler is MSI's Twin Frozr VI)

Thanks for the far greater level of details than I was ever hoping for, you are the man!

PC1: ASRock ION330, 640 GB WD Black, 2GB DDR3 A-Data | 24" Iiyama E2482HS-1
PC2: ASUS H87I-Plus, Intel i7 4770 + NH-U14, 2x8GB Corsair | MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB | 128 GB Kingston, 480 GB Sandisk | Corsair HX750i | NZXT 530 BLCK | 27" Dell S2740L
PC3: ASRock A320M Pro4 | AMD Ryzen5 1400 + NH-U12S SE-AM4 | 2x8GB DDR4 Vengeance 2400 MHz | MSI GeForce GTX 1060 Mini 6GB | SSD 525GB Crucial MX300 | Seasonic SSR-650FX Gold | Zalman Z1 | 27" Iiyama B2776HDS

Last edited by petkow; 08-20-2018 at 05:56 AM.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 05:46 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by petkow View Post
Great, I shall get me some sweet Noctua-s to even things out, whenever I get inspired!
Thanks for the far great level of details i was ever hoping for you are the man!
Noctua make some good fans but also some not so good .. and they are almost always over-priced when compared to others with similar performance.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-20-2018, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I am a fanboi, so Noctua it is.

Actually the best fans I have ever used are manufactured by EBM PAPST. They are used in medical equipment, car industry, etc, where failure is not an option. Sadly they do not offer consumer grade computer models.

PC1: ASRock ION330, 640 GB WD Black, 2GB DDR3 A-Data | 24" Iiyama E2482HS-1
PC2: ASUS H87I-Plus, Intel i7 4770 + NH-U14, 2x8GB Corsair | MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB | 128 GB Kingston, 480 GB Sandisk | Corsair HX750i | NZXT 530 BLCK | 27" Dell S2740L
PC3: ASRock A320M Pro4 | AMD Ryzen5 1400 + NH-U12S SE-AM4 | 2x8GB DDR4 Vengeance 2400 MHz | MSI GeForce GTX 1060 Mini 6GB | SSD 525GB Crucial MX300 | Seasonic SSR-650FX Gold | Zalman Z1 | 27" Iiyama B2776HDS

Last edited by petkow; 08-20-2018 at 09:08 PM.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 03:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by petkow View Post
I am a fanboi, so Noctua it is.

Actually the best fans I have ever used are manufactured by EBM PAPST. They are used in medical equipment, car industry, etc, where failure is not an option. Sadly they do not offer consumer grade computer models.
So you have a single Noctua fan on our NH-U14S CPU cooler (very good cooler) with 9 other fans none of which are Noctua in your system and you are a Noctua 'fanboi' ??? I think we have serious breakdown in communication here .. or a serious mental breakdown happening.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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haha, you got me there :-D

the fanboiness comes from around 2008, when i discovered this brand, however I have yet to buy any fans of theirs though. My homeboy used to work for our local regional PC Magazine edition and he often received test units, and i have had behind the scenes access to a lot of equipment, without actually owning it.
Back in the days he had the only GTX480 in Eastern Europe, etc.

All those I have are more a "frankenstein" collection of fans I had laying around from older rigs and leftovers.

However I don't lean towards RGB or whatever and those fans can be crazy expensive as well.
So as I kinda like Noctua's in your face design - you either love it or hate it - whenever i get inspired i will shell out for an all Noctua fan setup, just for the lulz. I will make sure to update this thread as well, whenever that is.

I also have at least a dozen no name ones laying around (90 - 140 mm). One of my favorites is a Vantec fan btw, apart from Papst I already mentioned.

PC1: ASRock ION330, 640 GB WD Black, 2GB DDR3 A-Data | 24" Iiyama E2482HS-1
PC2: ASUS H87I-Plus, Intel i7 4770 + NH-U14, 2x8GB Corsair | MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB | 128 GB Kingston, 480 GB Sandisk | Corsair HX750i | NZXT 530 BLCK | 27" Dell S2740L
PC3: ASRock A320M Pro4 | AMD Ryzen5 1400 + NH-U12S SE-AM4 | 2x8GB DDR4 Vengeance 2400 MHz | MSI GeForce GTX 1060 Mini 6GB | SSD 525GB Crucial MX300 | Seasonic SSR-650FX Gold | Zalman Z1 | 27" Iiyama B2776HDS

Last edited by petkow; 08-21-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 09:43 AM
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Ever used any Thermalright fans? I am quite fond of their TY-140, 143, 147, 149 series fans. Often hard to find but sometimes very low priced for really good fans. I have insider help for Thermalright.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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