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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
@postem
As has been said, top tier air coolers are easily as good as CLCs, but we need to setup case airflow so case is flowing air in sync with air cooling components' needs. This means lower airflow at idle and low load and case progressively flowing more are as componet load increases and their cooler fans' speed increases and use more air.

What case do you have? What is the case fan setup going to be with CPU being air cooled?

You might find the basic guide to how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow in below link of interest.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html
Below case pics from before exchanging the blower cards for the 2080 ti.
Audio card exchanged to below video card now, gpu is on top.
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by postem View Post
About top fans @doyll :

And if the top fan in actually used as intake? I found a very interesting statement from silverstone here:
https://www.silverstonetek.com/techt...tid=wh_airflow

Considering the top ventilation is directly near noctua intake it could be capable of pushing fresh air into the DH15 tunnel, while some pressure would keep gpu air down?

Btw, im not trying to reach absolutely maximum cool temperatures, if i can manage to keep my temps on cpu beyond 75c on heavy load its enough for me.
Those Silverstone moving displays are kinda funny. A top fan intake near the back and rear exhaust near the top end up with top intake going out the back as they show. Good airflow setup moving air front to back is great, and we need as much or more rear venting are as we have intake fanned and filtered vents on front. Adding top intake pushing air down even if near front of case generally disrupts the smooth front to back flow we want.

I've done all kinds of experimentation and testing by monitoring airflow temp from entering case to cooler and on out of case and found the best is almost always front intakes with maybe a bottom intake flowing air to GPU, all PCie back slot covers removed to create more rear vent area and usually no rear exhaust fans used. Top venting usually does not help and often hurts.

But feel free to experiment by monitoring airflow temps at all speeds and system load combinations to see what works best for you. What I try to do is get the air flowing into cooler/s to be 3c or less warmer than room when system is at full load. Many systems can only get to about 5c warmer. This 3c or 5c is reached within a minute or two of system going to full load. After that the airflow and component temps only change a few degrees up or down for as long as full load is ran. Many stock setups have air into cooler/s slowly climbing to 20-30c warmer, sometimes even higher than room at full load after 10-20+ minutes .. while 2-5 minutes into stress test run mine are flat. below is a graph from one of my builds. You can see how after load and airflow stablize the temp line is almost flat with a maximum of about 4-5c difference anywhere during full load run. I think the couple of degrees higher temp during first 10 minutes is while airflow still has a little turbulence in it for fans going from idle to full load speeds. You can see the fan speed takes about 3 minutes to reach peak speed, then never moves. This graph has fans set at 1274rpm @50c for these tests. In normal use I lowered fan speed to 1050rpm (to be almost silent) with the CPU running 65c.

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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 10:43 AM
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Why do you have the PSU the wrong way around in your case cant the cable reach if you have it the other way?

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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by postem View Post
Hi doyll, thanks for your kind response.
My case is a thermaltake v41.
https://www.thermaltake.com/products...?id=C_00002499

The reason im prone to go back to Air cooling are the follows:
1) I never trusted that much AIOs (or water in general). I must give in that the AIO is keeping good temps for 2 years, it was just when i added an Axis style GPU that i crossed the "magical barrier" (at least for me) of 40c, and rising, of the coolant.
2) Due to current situation in my room, which is posed to change in 6 months, i cant manage to replace the case. The case lies behind, lined with my desk.
3) Even if sound levels are similar, and i dont think so at 1800RPM, AIO is mounted as top exaust, and fans are very near me. With fans inside the case, sound will be dampened.

Currently, 2 140 ML fans @ 60%, 1 120mm ML fan jury rigged as top intake, so 3 intake fans, and 1 rear 120mm jetflow fan @ 60%.
All fans with curves going up to 90%, except radiator fans, those make very bad noises when changing rotation, so usually i keep radiator fans around 1200-1300 RPM, and during the day, due to room temperature around 31-32c, i blast 1800-1900RPM to keep coolant below 40c.
PSU is with fan turned inside case, mostly due to very dusty enviroment.

GPU is always kept below 67c due to zotac fan profiles, but its okay in noise terms to me.

With Noctua DH15 or DH15s, i expect to keep temperatures under control without having to account for coolant temps, while keeping cpu fans at most the max of noctua.
With AIO, even with liquid > 42c, cpu never goes beyond 71c, its 5ghz 1.34v and dellided, there are 3c at most core temperature delta.

The case can support 3 120 or 140mm top fans or up to 2 200mm fans. What you think would be best for air channeling? closing the top or having fans on it? It really annoys me too that with the top grill, i have dust and other particles that often falls into the case.
I was never much of a fan of top grills as it exposes the case to every kind of contaminants than can fall.
Over the last 40+ years I've used lots of different cooling, including building our own custom loops with aquarium/pond pumps and car radiators. About 15 years ago good air coolers started coming out and I started changing back to air. I've done new custom loops but can't justify the expense for what little is gained.

Quote: Originally Posted by postem View Post
Below case pics from before exchanging the blower cards for the 2080 ti.
Audio card exchanged to below video card now, gpu is on top.
Did lowering audio card effect GPU temps?

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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 11:15 AM
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NH-D15 not DH15.

Higher end coolers can perform similar to liquid coolers. Especially on modern CPUs where the bottleneck isn't cooler but getting heat away through die, TIM, IHS to the cooler.
You start a load on a CPU and it jumps up instantly by 40-50C... it doesn't matter what cooler you have. The dissipation capacity is more than enough on larger coolers with plenty heatpipes.
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Over the last 40+ years I've used lots of different cooling, including building our own custom loops with aquarium/pond pumps and car radiators. About 15 years ago good air coolers started coming out and I started changing back to air. I've done new custom loops but can't justify the expense for what little is gained.

Did lowering audio card effect GPU temps?
I didnt really done for this purpose; i done this because i was really tired of trying to find the right connector with the card on that position, but i couldnt move before because of SLI getting in the way of all the slots.
When i brought the AIO, it was much more about lack of local retailers for noctua; living in Brazil is not only a hot hell, but we have heavy import taxes that basically makes most resallers only to purchase stocks they really consider that are going to be sold.
Now i can get from a local retailer a noctua with a reasonable price, around 120 US$.

Quote: Originally Posted by shilka View Post
Why do you have the PSU the wrong way around in your case cant the cable reach if you have it the other way?
Honestly, its much more about dust, i have cats, believe me, cat fur does everything to get inside all cases. Doing this way i prevent the worse accumulation of dust and other debris, in a place i dont want to open to clean, the PSU.
It surely generates negative pressure pushing air inside it, but it have fan stop features.

Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
NH-D15 not DH15.

Higher end coolers can perform similar to liquid coolers. Especially on modern CPUs where the bottleneck isn't cooler but getting heat away through die, TIM, IHS to the cooler.
You start a load on a CPU and it jumps up instantly by 40-50C... it doesn't matter what cooler you have. The dissipation capacity is more than enough on larger coolers with plenty heatpipes.
Like i said, heat transfer isnt much of an issue since when i delidded this cpu. Usually during winter when room temps top around 22-26c i end up with max 60c on cpu.

Air flow isnt bad; actually, im getting around 10C delta from ambient to coolant, with both cpu and gpu maxed.
I used an NZXT H400 before this case, and it choked the radiator real bad; i even tried to run delta fans +4000 RPM and even with it, i was reaching coolant temps around 50C with SLI FE.

At night, when temperatures fall below 30C, i can sustain coolant below 40C with low rpms on H110i. Probably im overreacting about the AIO safety, but im not satisfied, especially considering it atop a 2080ti. Even if my mobo bends, its cheaper than the TI, and it will be probably quieter.


I gonna order Noctua 15 regular version, its compatible with case and motherboard, even if i dont use the 2d fan, i will have it in case i want to move it upwards or on back. I will just also mount 2x 140mm fans as intake and colect temps.

Last edited by postem; 01-20-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 06:25 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by postem View Post
I didnt really done for this purpose; i done this because i was really tired of trying to find the right connector with the card on that position, but i couldnt move before because of SLI getting in the way of all the slots.
When i brought the AIO, it was much more about lack of local retailers for noctua; living in Brazil is not only a hot hell, but we have heavy import taxes that basically makes most resallers only to purchase stocks they really consider that are going to be sold.
Now i can get from a local retailer a noctua with a reasonable price, around 120 US$.
Noctua is not the only maker of good coolers. Thermalright, be quiet!, Cryorig, Scythe, Alpenfohn, Deepcool, Phanteks, Prolimatech, Raijintek, Reeven, ID-Cooling, etc. all make some very good coolers that if available cost much less than Noctua in most places.

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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 07:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by postem View Post
About top fans @doyll :

And if the top fan in actually used as intake? I found a very interesting statement from silverstone here:
https://www.silverstonetek.com/techt...tid=wh_airflow

Considering the top ventilation is directly near noctua intake it could be capable of pushing fresh air into the DH15 tunnel, while some pressure would keep gpu air down?

Btw, im not trying to reach absolutely maximum cool temperatures, if i can manage to keep my temps on cpu beyond 75c on heavy load its enough for me.

I have an NH-D15. I tried one and two fans and found a 1-2c difference, so I use one. I also experimented around with case fan airflow and ended up with a top 140mm PWM intake fan blowing into the front of the Noctua with excellent results ( I have two 140mm PWM front fans, a 140 PWM rear exhaust, and a 120mm intake on the bottom running at a constant low rpm ). See rig pics (I since got rid of the HDD cage).

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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 03:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GeneO View Post
I have an NH-D15. I tried one and two fans and found a 1-2c difference, so I use one. I also experimented around with case fan airflow and ended up with a top 140mm PWM intake fan blowing into the front of the Noctua with excellent results ( I have two 140mm PWM front fans, a 140 PWM rear exhaust, and a 120mm intake on the bottom running at a constant low rpm ). See rig pics (I since got rid of the HDD cage).
Indeed, sometimes a top fan helps. I'm kinda surprised top fan helped with 2x 140mm front intakes and 120mm bottom intake. It might be because your only exhaust is back and if you have not removed PCIe back slot covers your overall 4x intake fan case airflow is being severally limited by the rear vent area being about 1/4th of what your intake is .. meaning about 1/4th the airflow intakes would have if they had equal exhaust vent area. So adding the top fan effectively stopped that vent from being an exhaust vent area and thus stopped the upward movement of air that might have been allowing GPU heated exhaust from moving up into airflow to CPU cooler. I suspect unplugging top intake and setting a book over that vent area will have little to no effect on temps. Would be interesting to know if this is true.

Hope that makes sense.

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i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 04:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Indeed, sometimes a top fan helps. I'm kinda surprised top fan helped with 2x 140mm front intakes and 120mm bottom intake. It might be because your only exhaust is back and if you have not removed PCIe back slot covers your overall 4x intake fan case airflow is being severally limited by the rear vent area being about 1/4th of what your intake is .. meaning about 1/4th the airflow intakes would have if they had equal exhaust vent area. So adding the top fan effectively stopped that vent from being an exhaust vent area and thus stopped the upward movement of air that might have been allowing GPU heated exhaust from moving up into airflow to CPU cooler. I suspect unplugging top intake and setting a book over that vent area will have little to no effect on temps. Would be interesting to know if this is true.

Hope that makes sense.
If he is using the Define R4 in his sig, the top fan is a huge help. I had to do the same with that case. It's simply because the front intakes are so choked.

Yeah....the little girl hentai avatar is really creeping me out....
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