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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 09:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jhsu View Post
I'm not trying to be an authority, just trying to share helpful information. I guess it's up to the reader to be smart enough to understand how it's helpful to them or not [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
I'm glad you understand that your efforts are appreciated, and informative to the vast majority of posters here.

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 11:35 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by jhsu View Post
Thanks for explaining, yea I'm not trying to be an authority, just trying to share helpful information. I guess it's up to the reader to be smart enough to understand how it's helpful to them or not
Don't get me wrong, I do think its interesting but given you are testing different set ups for your computer you should have tested it as you use the system. Thats what I did when I tested a load of fans. I did 100% and various RPM's through out their range to see the difference. If you run your fans at 100% when you using your system then I can see validity in your method. I also tested using a stability program (OCCT) plus multiple runs of R15 plus my normal work flow and games. That way I could see and hear the difference in the fans at different rpms and choose which is right for me.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 03:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by poah View Post
Don't get me wrong, I do think its interesting but given you are testing different set ups for your computer you should have tested it as you use the system. Thats what I did when I tested a load of fans. I did 100% and various RPM's through out their range to see the difference. If you run your fans at 100% when you using your system then I can see validity in your method. I also tested using a stability program (OCCT) plus multiple runs of R15 plus my normal work flow and games. That way I could see and hear the difference in the fans at different rpms and choose which is right for me.
That's all fine and good if you only want results of how fans perform in your system, but results are of little to no good for peeps with different systems than yours.

In other words your testing is only really applicable to peeps with identical system to yours.

Using CPU temp to test fans on a cooler in a system does not give true results of fan performance. For fans running from idle to about 1300rpm maybe results will not be off too much, but put a hi-performance 2500rpm fan on a cooler and it's results will likely be similar to results of other fans at 1300rpm .. even it's own results at 1300rpm. Reason is at 2500rpm fan is moving almost twice as much air as at 1300rpm .. but case is still only flowing same amount of air .. meaning cooler fan is re-using it's own heated exhaust air .. and number of degrees warmer the air into cooler is translates into almost exactly the same number of degrees hotter CPU is.

In other words running system at 100% when cooler has a hi-performance 2500rpm fan will give results about the same CPU temp as at 1300rpm. But if case airflow is increased to flow same temp air into cooler at 2500rpm as at 1300rpm the CPU will be 5-10c lower.

@jhsu
Running with side cover removed and fans off does not mean cooler is getting room ambient air temp. I've built systems that ran significantly warmer with side cover off than on simply because with side cover on the case flowed cool air to components and with cover off those cool airflow paths were not functioning.

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 08:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
That's all fine and good if you only want results of how fans perform in your system, but results are of little to no good for peeps with different systems than yours.

In other words your testing is only really applicable to peeps with identical system to yours.
no because I did it on an AIO mounted as an inlet but it would still only be valid for that type of AIO. Fans performing on an open air test don't tell you anything about how they will work in your system which is what the OP was wanting to see. It was the first line of his post

"So I spent a day going through different air cooling options for [/b]my[/b] Threadripper 1950x"
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by poah View Post
no because I did it on an AIO mounted as an inlet but it would still only be valid for that type of AIO. Fans performing on an open air test don't tell you anything about how they will work in your system which is what the OP was wanting to see. It was the first line of his post

"So I spent a day going through different air cooling options for [/b]my[/b] Threadripper 1950x"
An AIO (I'm betting it's really a CLC) as intake performance is going to be virtually the same as on open air test bench. But an air cooler in same cased system will not be getting the same cool air the CLC does. It's air will be warmed by GPU exhaust and HDDs is HDD cage is case and in use.

True, but in methodology he said
Quote:
ran everything with the side panel open and the case fans off. I used a Prime95 custom torture test with Min/Max FFT size set to 96 and in-place. I started with a 3 min warm-up period, reset the values, then let it run for +10 min recording the average values for clock speed, voltage, Tdie temp, and fan speed.

I used the mic on my phone to measure dB levels placed 12 inches away from the fans, so I can't vouch for it's absolute acccuracy, but useful enough for relative comparisons.

I then subtracted the ambient temperature from the Tdie temps to find the temperature above ambient (ΔT).
While I'm not positive, my guess is running
Quote:
with side panel open and the case fans off
was an attempt to isolate cooler and cooler fan performance from his system's perform in normal use with side panel closed and fans running.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 01:30 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
An AIO (I'm betting it's really a CLC) as intake performance is going to be virtually the same as on open air test bench. But an air cooler in same cased system will not be getting the same cool air the CLC does. It's air will be warmed by GPU exhaust and HDDs is HDD cage is case and in use.
it isn't the same as an open air test bench. An open air test bench doesn't have a front panel or a dust filter.

Wither the unit has the ability to be refilled or more components added to it (which would make it an open loop) is totally irrelevant. You are testing the ability of the fan to blow air through a radiator. If you are looking to see what gives your own system the best noise to performance then you do it with the case closed. I really don't understand how someone who constantly goes on about people having poor testing methodology can't grasp this simple scientific principle.
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 02:13 AM
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I don't understand how you can't understand what's going on here.
They already said it perfectly:
"Thanks for explaining, yea I'm not trying to be an authority, just trying to share helpful information. I guess it's up to the reader to be smart enough to understand how it's helpful to them or not "


If nothing applies to you then why are you even here bothering people? Why does some idiot have to take a wet dump on anyone's thread that don't conform to their exact sensibilities? What do you actually want @poah ? Just to argue? Like in the last thread where you came in defending CLC when no one was saying anything about CLCs? You've proven so many times that you're incompetent and lack basic reading comprehension that I really don't understand how you tell any one how they should be testing anything or how you can even take yourself seriously let alone expect anyone else to.


Anyone reading should know that they won't have the exact same results (which the OP and everyone else said) and it doesn't matter anyway becasue as long as they've made repeatable testing with the same ambient temp going in, they should still be able to determine which cooler is better with the same air flow, max airflow and how all the fans/coolers sound. If you can't understand such a basic thing and agree that YMMV, I can't wrap my head around why you even bother posting at all but I appreciate you trying.


Even in your very last post you ignored the word "virtually" just so you could have something to say but in MY case an AIO would perform as if it were open air so you're wrong either way. Plus 90% of modercases have managed to alleviate the restriction of the front panels. Adding negative bias doesn't speak for the raw performance of the cooler at all.

It's been explained to you that it's pretty standard to test coolers in an open air environment, why would you incorporate negative bias for no reason? My airflow is good enough that it doesn't matter if my panel is on or off to my CPU or GPU. Furthermore the OP has explained that YOU should be smart enough to tell that this is not a standard application of a cooler and this data may not apply to you.
If you were reviewing the performance of muscle cars/performance coupes, you wouldn't fill the damn car with passengers would you?


The title even says CASE STUDY (not perfect cooler bench), even the tone of the entire post made it seem as though they were sharing their own personal results which may not apply to anyone else

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Last edited by white owl; 02-08-2019 at 02:17 AM.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 04:17 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by poah View Post
it isn't the same as an open air test bench. An open air test bench doesn't have a front panel or a dust filter.

Wither the unit has the ability to be refilled or more components added to it (which would make it an open loop) is totally irrelevant. You are testing the ability of the fan to blow air through a radiator. If you are looking to see what gives your own system the best noise to performance then you do it with the case closed. I really don't understand how someone who constantly goes on about people having poor testing methodology can't grasp this simple scientific principle.
True, case does have grill and filter .. also other airflow restrictions inside and exhaust vent grills. But air temp into CLC is room temp. But if as you say 'You are testing the ability of the fan to blow air through a radiator.' where are these other airflow restictons you just said are in play?

It's you who are not grasphing the concepts here. jhsu tested both with and without side cover closed; with side cover closed for his own system testing and with side cover open for the benefit of the rest of us.

Honestly, [email protected]; started this thread about his testing of 3 air coolers. AIOs and CLCs have no place in this thread.

Why are you complaining about what he did? It obviously has no effect on what you do.

And why are you dragging your ideas ab out AIOs and CLCs into a thread? Ohsu is using air cooling.

As for the rest of your posting, @white owl said it better than I can.
Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
I don't understand how you can't understand what's going on here.
They already said it perfectly:
"Thanks for explaining, yea I'm not trying to be an authority, just trying to share helpful information. I guess it's up to the reader to be smart enough to understand how it's helpful to them or not "


If nothing applies to you then why are you even here bothering people? Why does some idiot have to take a wet dump on anyone's thread that don't conform to their exact sensibilities? What do you actually want @poah ? Just to argue? Like in the last thread where you came in defending CLC when no one was saying anything about CLCs? You've proven so many times that you're incompetent and lack basic reading comprehension that I really don't understand how you tell any one how they should be testing anything or how you can even take yourself seriously let alone expect anyone else to.


Anyone reading should know that they won't have the exact same results (which the OP and everyone else said) and it doesn't matter anyway becasue as long as they've made repeatable testing with the same ambient temp going in, they should still be able to determine which cooler is better with the same air flow, max airflow and how all the fans/coolers sound. If you can't understand such a basic thing and agree that YMMV, I can't wrap my head around why you even bother posting at all but I appreciate you trying.


Even in your very last post you ignored the word "virtually" just so you could have something to say but in MY case an AIO would perform as if it were open air so you're wrong either way. Plus 90% of modercases have managed to alleviate the restriction of the front panels. Adding negative bias doesn't speak for the raw performance of the cooler at all.

It's been explained to you that it's pretty standard to test coolers in an open air environment, why would you incorporate negative bias for no reason? My airflow is good enough that it doesn't matter if my panel is on or off to my CPU or GPU. Furthermore the OP has explained that YOU should be smart enough to tell that this is not a standard application of a cooler and this data may not apply to you.
If you were reviewing the performance of muscle cars/performance coupes, you wouldn't fill the damn car with passengers would you?


The title even says CASE STUDY (not perfect cooler bench), even the tone of the entire post made it seem as though they were sharing their own personal results which may not apply to anyone else

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base

Last edited by doyll; 02-08-2019 at 04:45 AM.
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 08:12 AM
Shooting down fallacies
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
I don't understand how you can't understand what's going on here.......
Come on, don't pretend there is no history......



And I blame @doyll for engaging and keeping it going.

Yeah....the little girl hentai avatar is really creeping me out....

Last edited by ciarlatano; 02-08-2019 at 08:23 AM.
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