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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 08:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
how about the corsair aios? newest version apparently use the gen 6 cooler.


I might switch out my D15 for one of the h150i (gen6 360mm) due to unable to hold temps of my 5820K below 85c beyond 1.25v.

My H115i Pro is handling my 9900K fine, but you're unlikely to get much more performance out of an AIO than a D15. On my old 6700 I got virtually identical temps between my H115i and LGMRT. Haven't given the LGMRT a go on my 9900K, but I'd imagine it's a similar story.

Not sure what the loud comments are about, mine is basically inaudible at idle and I keep the pump on max 24/7. The only bad thing about AIOS like mentioned are the price : performance and the fact they all are going to have the pump fail at some point.

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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 10:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
I hate everything about CLCs, they remind me of toys from the $0.99 store. Even the best CLC made cools within 10% of the best air coolers while costing 100%-150% more and requires you to buy different fans if you want it to cool like what you see in the reviews and be a quiet as air cooling...which further jacks up the cost. Then there's the reliability aspect, I've seen way too many members here saying their temps have increased over a short time. Pump still works but not enough to be effective. I hate dealing with RMAs and I hate products that were made to be as cheap as possible and mostly sold on misconceptions and in some cases flat out lies.

AIOs would be an option but there aren't any that I know of that are as reliable as I'd like and they lock you into a little eco system of compatible parts.

For the $200 it would cost to get a CLC and the fans I'd be able to get a D5+res combo and probably the CPU block with some money left over. I could probably build a really solid loop for the CPU for well under $400 using a D5 and a thick 360mm rad. Then I can add a GPU block later for $25-$40.
If you wanted to cool you CPU and GPU with AIOs to significantly beat air cooling you'd already be well into what it would cost to build a custom loop.

Plus CLC's look so uninspired, so mass produced, so bland. All the people that make them are currently having an RGB/bling battle where they try to make them as tacky as they possibly can with angular body kits and small OLED screens and what not. I like the idea of RGB but hate the way it's marketed and used.

An EK phoenix 280 is almost double a H150i though...
And the ML fans seems pretty decent from the get go








Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
My H115i Pro is handling my 9900K fine, but you're unlikely to get much more performance out of an AIO than a D15. On my old 6700 I got virtually identical temps between my H115i and LGMRT. Haven't given the LGMRT a go on my 9900K, but I'd imagine it's a similar story.

Not sure what the loud comments are about, mine is basically inaudible at idle and I keep the pump on max 24/7. The only bad thing about AIOS like mentioned are the price : performance and the fact they all are going to have the pump fail at some point.

Well, I'm using a D15 dual fan on a 5820K and the temps aren't that great. Cooler maxes out around 160w if I want to keep the temps below 85c.


Will the H150i provide a significant cooling improvement is what I'm wondering.

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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 02:42 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
Well, I'm using a D15 dual fan on a 5820K and the temps aren't that great. Cooler maxes out around 160w if I want to keep the temps below 85c.


Will the H150i provide a significant cooling improvement is what I'm wondering.
Generally when someone is having problems cooling with top tier air (like D15) the problem is not the cooler but the case not flowing cool air (air at or near room temp) into cooler when CPU and GPU are working hard. Most stock cases either don't have enough case fans or the fans are not good enough for the job and case airflow ends up being 10c, 20c, even 30c warmer than room .. and every degree warmer the air is into cooler translates almost exactly to same number of degrees hotter component is .. air 20c warmer than room giving 85c temps become 60c when air is at more reasonable 5c above room temp.



The reason CLC test results appear to be cooling better than air cooler is because of air temp into CLC as case intake is way cooler than air temp into air cooler when testing in a case built test system.



Also to get the 5-10c cooler temps CLC often have their fans are often extremely loud. Use same kind of high airflow fans for case and air cooler and temps are just as low or lower.



Below is results of CLC vs top tier air vs top tier air with hi-performance fans. Top tier air is about same temp as CLC but dramatically quieter. But with simlair noise level high airflow fans making similar noise level it is 7c cooler than CLC.

Quote:
Silver Arrow SB-E, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme vs H100
I7 [email protected] Temperature in Delta
Cooler . . . . . . . . . Delta . RPM . . . . . . dB(A) . . Fans
H100 . . . . . . . . . . 41c . . 2500. . . . . . 55 . . . . 2x
SA SB-E. . . . . . . . 42c . . 1000 & 1300. 38 . . . . TY-150 & TY-141
SA SB-E Extreme . 34c . . 2500 . . . . . . 56 . . . . 2x TY-143

H100 is 1c cooler than Silver Arrow SB-e but makes more than 3 times the noise doing it
Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme is 7c cooler with fans making similar amount of noise as H100 does.
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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 06:21 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
An EK phoenix 280 is almost double a H150i though...
And the ML fans seems pretty decent from the get go
And the Swiftech H360 X3 is a better unit than the EK Phoenix, and is priced in line with the H150i.




Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
Well, I'm using a D15 dual fan on a 5820K and the temps aren't that great. Cooler maxes out around 160w if I want to keep the temps below 85c.


Will the H150i provide a significant cooling improvement is what I'm wondering.
I will agree with @ThePook and @doyll in saying the answer to that question is pretty much a resounding "no".

Yeah....the little girl hentai avatar is really creeping me out....
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 07:19 AM
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The loud thing comes from thermals. In a lot of tests/reviews I've seen the CLC had to be louder to actually beat a good air cooler, at the same noise level air can often do better. I hardly keep myself up to date on where the CLC market is going though.

As for EKs kits...so far everything I've seen from them can be done better or cheaper if you source your own parts. Never been big on prepackaged/bundled gear simply because there's usually something included that isn't ideal and replacing it negates the whole thing.
Haven't looked into their AIOs. If it's not a D5 I lose interest because the D5 is able to push a full loop with decent flow without being loud.

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The key is generally not which brands are good but which specific products are. Motherboards and GPUs are perfect examples of companies having everything from golden to garbage function/quality.
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post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 07:23 AM
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because the diminishing returns on air coolers are even more extreme than that of water coolers.
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post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
because the diminishing returns on air coolers are even more extreme than that of water coolers.
How can air cooling have a higher diminishing return than water cooling?


Air coolers cost less, cool as well or better than CLCs at same noise levels and about the same as AIOs that are not CLC .. often giving similar coolng to noise levels as custom loops for a fracton of money and work involved in building a custom loop.

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post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 08:11 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Below is results of CLC vs top tier air vs top tier air with hi-performance fans. Top tier air is about same temp as CLC but dramatically quieter. But with simlair noise level high airflow fans making similar noise level it is 7c cooler than CLC.

The H100 is a 9 year old AIO with a gen 1 pump, and yeah, it was super loud. It made me go back to air after I moved from AM3. Even the fans are 40dBa on the H100 versus 20.4 on the Pro lineup.

If your ("modern") AIO is noisy then it's faulty

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post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 08:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Generally when someone is having problems cooling with top tier air (like D15) the problem is not the cooler but the case not flowing cool air (air at or near room temp) into cooler when CPU and GPU are working hard. Most stock cases either don't have enough case fans or the fans are not good enough for the job and case airflow ends up being 10c, 20c, even 30c warmer than room .. and every degree warmer the air is into cooler translates almost exactly to same number of degrees hotter component is .. air 20c warmer than room giving 85c temps become 60c when air is at more reasonable 5c above room temp.



The reason CLC test results appear to be cooling better than air cooler is because of air temp into CLC as case intake is way cooler than air temp into air cooler when testing in a case built test system.



Also to get the 5-10c cooler temps CLC often have their fans are often extremely loud. Use same kind of high airflow fans for case and air cooler and temps are just as low or lower.



Below is results of CLC vs top tier air vs top tier air with hi-performance fans. Top tier air is about same temp as CLC but dramatically quieter. But with simlair noise level high airflow fans making similar noise level it is 7c cooler than CLC.



PC-Cooling video review above data came from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6xrsuPwDbo
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I'm not getting that great of temps to my cooler, even with a positive air pressure config.


Do you have data on the H150i or any of the Gen 6 pumps?









Quote: Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post
And the Swiftech H360 X3 is a better unit than the EK Phoenix, and is priced in line with the H150i.






I will agree with @ThePook and @doyll in saying the answer to that question is pretty much a resounding "no".

H360 x3 is better?



Any temp comparison and overall QC comparison?


How about the reliability of the cooler without maintenance (no drain/refill)?





The issue is that I'm unwilling to disassemble the open loop at all.









Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
@The Pook
The loud thing comes from thermals. In a lot of tests/reviews I've seen the CLC had to be louder to actually beat a good air cooler, at the same noise level air can often do better. I hardly keep myself up to date on where the CLC market is going though.

As for EKs kits...so far everything I've seen from them can be done better or cheaper if you source your own parts. Never been big on prepackaged/bundled gear simply because there's usually something included that isn't ideal and replacing it negates the whole thing.
Haven't looked into their AIOs. If it's not a D5 I lose interest because the D5 is able to push a full loop with decent flow without being loud.

The Phoenix struck my interest since it's advertised as prebuilt and can easily add a GPU block if need be.


I'm not sure how maintenance free it is though. And it's more expensive than all the options for CLCs. Even when buying H150i + EVGA hybrid kit.

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post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
The H100 is a 9 year old AIO with a gen 1 pump, and yeah, it was super loud. It made me go back to air after I moved from AM3. Even the fans are 40dBa on the H100 versus 20.4 on the Pro lineup.

If your ("modern") AIO is noisy then it's faulty
First off, almost all AIOs you are referring to are CLCs, a sub-group of AIO and not near as well built as AIOs that are not CLCs. Asetek's almost monopoly on CLC cooling with sales as good as they are means they have no real incentive to improve product. They change the looks a little, add RGB and call it a new 'generation' product.



All of this 1st gen, 2nd gen, etc hype is just that, hype with little to no real changes in pump, raidator, etc. I have seen nothing that indicates there is any real functional difference in performance from original H100 vs most resent Asetek CLCs using same size radiators. They have changed to quieter fans, but that has also lowered their maximum cooling ability.



Asetek has published almost nothing of their pump performance so we have no way of knowing what their lift and flow rates .. but from what few independent tests I've seen there is no real difference in pump flowrate from original Asetek to latest generation .. all have a flow rate about equal to what a healthy adult can urinate which is 40-60 L/h .. somewhere between 34 L/h to 61 L/h.



If you have any data and supporting links please post them so we can see the differences.

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