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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Where are the triple towers?

Once in a while cooler manufacturers come up with things like the Alpenfohn Everest that never make it into production.
Why doesn't this exist yet?
Here is my idea of what a triple-tower Noctua might look like:



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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 07:09 AM
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Probably because they don't improve cooling.

A top tier single tower (TRUE Spirit 140 Power) is as good or better than any of the twin towers out there.

Independent testing has shown NH-D14 is every bit as good and probably a little better cooling than NH-D15 when both are using same fans, and TRUE Spirit 140 Power gives 2-3c cooler temps than D14 on i7 [email protected]

It seems heatpipe cooling is close to it's maximum ability without some sort of new tech. The change from solid material heatsink to heatpipe heatsink made a huge difference in cooling .. and some types of heatpipes perform better than others but only marginally.

There were some vapor chamber coolers marketed but they suffered from problems like base not being flat. In 2013 I tested ID-Cooling FI-REEX Deluxe (got 3 coolers to get 1 with flat base .. I was able to lap 2 flat and 34d was warped too much to even lap flat). FI-REEX is a single tower 160x140x88mm (HxWxD) w/o fans, 113mm deep w/ 1x fan, 138mm deep w/ 2x fans. It has 6x 8mm vapor chamber pipes and 2x 'U' 8mm heatpipes with a rating of 300w. I found it cooled as well as TRUE Spirit 140 Power rated 360w. ID-Cooling has discontinued FI-REEX for a black colored version called Hunter VC-3D using 2x 140mm fans. I need to try getting new Hunter VC-3D and test it.

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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I was wondering how a slim 140mm single tower could win and suspect it's only because of mounting pressure.
I just checked and the TRUE Spirit 140 Power screws directly into the mounting plate (no springs).

Just like the old version of the Scythe Fuma without springs matching coolers well above its weight class, new version has spring mounting and performs normally for its size.



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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 12:39 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ltpdttcdft View Post
I was wondering how a slim 140mm single tower could win and suspect it's only because of mounting pressure.
I just checked and the TRUE Spirit 140 Power screws directly into the mounting plate (no springs).

Just like the old version of the Scythe Fuma without springs matching coolers well above its weight class, new version has spring mounting and performs normally for its size.
Honestly springs in spring mounted bases do little or nothing, but you are correct, higher pressure does usually give better heat transfer. Really the best way to get good heat transfer is to have good TIM print in the area the CPU die/chip is in contact with it's IHS and from IHS into cooler base.
Reasons are not very complicated. TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 8mm diameter heatpipes while most other cooler have 6mm diameter heatpipes. That's more surface area contacting fins and inside of heatpipe wicking area moving liquid back to heat source and also more volume for vapor toward ends and release heat. More volume means more heat can be moved from base to fins.

Most of the heat from heatpipes radiating into the fins is cooled off in a first 15-25mm radius of heatpipe so large finpaks fin area doesn't improve cooling much if at all, and the faster the airflow over fins the quicker the heat is removed from them.

Also keep in mind that twin towers are using the heated air from front tower to cool the back tower.

Combine them all and hopefully you will understand why twin tower or triple tower coolers are often no better if as good as single tower coolers.

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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 02:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Probably because they don't improve cooling.

A top tier single tower (TRUE Spirit 140 Power) is as good or better than any of the twin towers out there.

Independent testing has shown NH-D14 is every bit as good and probably a little better cooling than NH-D15 when both are using same fans, and TRUE Spirit 140 Power gives 2-3c cooler temps than D14 on i7 [email protected]

It seems heatpipe cooling is close to it's maximum ability without some sort of new tech. The change from solid material heatsink to heatpipe heatsink made a huge difference in cooling .. and some types of heatpipes perform better than others but only marginally.

There were some vapor chamber coolers marketed but they suffered from problems like base not being flat. In 2013 I tested ID-Cooling FI-REEX Deluxe (got 3 coolers to get 1 with flat base .. I was able to lap 2 flat and 34d was warped too much to even lap flat). FI-REEX is a single tower 160x140x88mm (HxWxD) w/o fans, 113mm deep w/ 1x fan, 138mm deep w/ 2x fans. It has 6x 8mm vapor chamber pipes and 2x 'U' 8mm heatpipes with a rating of 300w. I found it cooled as well as TRUE Spirit 140 Power rated 360w. ID-Cooling has discontinued FI-REEX for a black colored version called Hunter VC-3D using 2x 140mm fans. I need to try getting new Hunter VC-3D and test it.

I compared the NH-D14 years ago to a few other coolers Box stock and with same fan setups and countless hours of testing. I still use the Assassin to this day with a 3 fan setup.

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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Probably because they don't improve cooling.

A top tier single tower (TRUE Spirit 140 Power) is as good or better than any of the twin towers out there.

Independent testing has shown NH-D14 is every bit as good and probably a little better cooling than NH-D15 when both are using same fans, and TRUE Spirit 140 Power gives 2-3c cooler temps than D14 on i7 [email protected]

It seems heatpipe cooling is close to it's maximum ability without some sort of new tech. The change from solid material heatsink to heatpipe heatsink made a huge difference in cooling .. and some types of heatpipes perform better than others but only marginally.

There were some vapor chamber coolers marketed but they suffered from problems like base not being flat. In 2013 I tested ID-Cooling FI-REEX Deluxe (got 3 coolers to get 1 with flat base .. I was able to lap 2 flat and 34d was warped too much to even lap flat). FI-REEX is a single tower 160x140x88mm (HxWxD) w/o fans, 113mm deep w/ 1x fan, 138mm deep w/ 2x fans. It has 6x 8mm vapor chamber pipes and 2x 'U' 8mm heatpipes with a rating of 300w. I found it cooled as well as TRUE Spirit 140 Power rated 360w. ID-Cooling has discontinued FI-REEX for a black colored version called Hunter VC-3D using 2x 140mm fans. I need to try getting new Hunter VC-3D and test it.
I totally agree, heat pipes have peaked and it seems like simply adding more of them or using more surface area provides diminishing improvement. The bigger towers do seem to do a little better when you're using CPUs that draw a lot of current but on desktop chips it would seem like adding more fins and pipes doesn't make the CPU any cooler.
It's kinda like idle temps, they're going to be about the same on a wide range of coolers, likely because the silicon and the oxide layer on top of it aren't great conductors of heat so they resist putting heat into the cooler.
It seems like we need a new type of cooling but IMO water is just too costly and large if you really want a step up from air.
If I'm ever flush again I may build a loop with the intention of keeping it around forever. The performance difference between EK's blocks and their knock offs are very small so rads and a pump would be my main cost...which is still pretty expensive if you want a long term pump like a D5.

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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 04:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
I totally agree, heat pipes have peaked and it seems like simply adding more of them or using more surface area provides diminishing improvement. The bigger towers do seem to do a little better when you're using CPUs that draw a lot of current but on desktop chips it would seem like adding more fins and pipes doesn't make the CPU any cooler.
It's kinda like idle temps, they're going to be about the same on a wide range of coolers, likely because the silicon and the oxide layer on top of it aren't great conductors of heat so they resist putting heat into the cooler.
It seems like we need a new type of cooling but IMO water is just too costly and large if you really want a step up from air.
If I'm ever flush again I may build a loop with the intention of keeping it around forever. The performance difference between EK's blocks and their knock offs are very small so rads and a pump would be my main cost...which is still pretty expensive if you want a long term pump like a D5.



how about the corsair aios? newest version apparently use the gen 6 cooler.


I might switch out my D15 for one of the h150i (gen6 360mm) due to unable to hold temps of my 5820K below 85c beyond 1.25v.

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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 06:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
how about the corsair aios? newest version apparently use the gen 6 cooler.


I might switch out my D15 for one of the h150i (gen6 360mm) due to unable to hold temps of my 5820K below 85c beyond 1.25v.
I hate everything about CLCs, they remind me of toys from the $0.99 store. Even the best CLC made cools within 10% of the best air coolers while costing 100%-150% more and requires you to buy different fans if you want it to cool like what you see in the reviews and be a quiet as air cooling...which further jacks up the cost. Then there's the reliability aspect, I've seen way too many members here saying their temps have increased over a short time. Pump still works but not enough to be effective. I hate dealing with RMAs and I hate products that were made to be as cheap as possible and mostly sold on misconceptions and in some cases flat out lies.

AIOs would be an option but there aren't any that I know of that are as reliable as I'd like and they lock you into a little eco system of compatible parts.

For the $200 it would cost to get a CLC and the fans I'd be able to get a D5+res combo and probably the CPU block with some money left over. I could probably build a really solid loop for the CPU for well under $400 using a D5 and a thick 360mm rad. Then I can add a GPU block later for $25-$40.
If you wanted to cool you CPU and GPU with AIOs to significantly beat air cooling you'd already be well into what it would cost to build a custom loop.

Plus CLC's look so uninspired, so mass produced, so bland. All the people that make them are currently having an RGB/bling battle where they try to make them as tacky as they possibly can with angular body kits and small OLED screens and what not. I like the idea of RGB but hate the way it's marketed and used.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpeedyVT
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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 06:46 PM
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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Probably cracked a few mother boards and said oops that's not going to work
...and now the latest generation of coolers have wimpy springs due to Intel CPUs with thin PCBs.



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