Where are the triple towers? - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

Where are the triple towers?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-11-2019, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
ltpdttcdft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 592
Rep: 36 (Unique: 30)
Where are the triple towers?

Once in a while cooler manufacturers come up with things like the Alpenfohn Everest that never make it into production.
Why doesn't this exist yet?
Here is my idea of what a triple-tower Noctua might look like:



ltpdttcdft is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 08:09 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
doyll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 25,732
Rep: 1667 (Unique: 927)
Probably because they don't improve cooling.

A top tier single tower (TRUE Spirit 140 Power) is as good or better than any of the twin towers out there.

Independent testing has shown NH-D14 is every bit as good and probably a little better cooling than NH-D15 when both are using same fans, and TRUE Spirit 140 Power gives 2-3c cooler temps than D14 on i7 [email protected]

It seems heatpipe cooling is close to it's maximum ability without some sort of new tech. The change from solid material heatsink to heatpipe heatsink made a huge difference in cooling .. and some types of heatpipes perform better than others but only marginally.

There were some vapor chamber coolers marketed but they suffered from problems like base not being flat. In 2013 I tested ID-Cooling FI-REEX Deluxe (got 3 coolers to get 1 with flat base .. I was able to lap 2 flat and 34d was warped too much to even lap flat). FI-REEX is a single tower 160x140x88mm (HxWxD) w/o fans, 113mm deep w/ 1x fan, 138mm deep w/ 2x fans. It has 6x 8mm vapor chamber pipes and 2x 'U' 8mm heatpipes with a rating of 300w. I found it cooled as well as TRUE Spirit 140 Power rated 360w. ID-Cooling has discontinued FI-REEX for a black colored version called Hunter VC-3D using 2x 140mm fans. I need to try getting new Hunter VC-3D and test it.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
doyll is offline  
post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
ltpdttcdft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 592
Rep: 36 (Unique: 30)
I was wondering how a slim 140mm single tower could win and suspect it's only because of mounting pressure.
I just checked and the TRUE Spirit 140 Power screws directly into the mounting plate (no springs).

Just like the old version of the Scythe Fuma without springs matching coolers well above its weight class, new version has spring mounting and performs normally for its size.



ltpdttcdft is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 01:39 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
doyll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 25,732
Rep: 1667 (Unique: 927)
Quote: Originally Posted by ltpdttcdft View Post
I was wondering how a slim 140mm single tower could win and suspect it's only because of mounting pressure.
I just checked and the TRUE Spirit 140 Power screws directly into the mounting plate (no springs).

Just like the old version of the Scythe Fuma without springs matching coolers well above its weight class, new version has spring mounting and performs normally for its size.
Honestly springs in spring mounted bases do little or nothing, but you are correct, higher pressure does usually give better heat transfer. Really the best way to get good heat transfer is to have good TIM print in the area the CPU die/chip is in contact with it's IHS and from IHS into cooler base.
Reasons are not very complicated. TRUE Spirit 140 Power has 8mm diameter heatpipes while most other cooler have 6mm diameter heatpipes. That's more surface area contacting fins and inside of heatpipe wicking area moving liquid back to heat source and also more volume for vapor toward ends and release heat. More volume means more heat can be moved from base to fins.

Most of the heat from heatpipes radiating into the fins is cooled off in a first 15-25mm radius of heatpipe so large finpaks fin area doesn't improve cooling much if at all, and the faster the airflow over fins the quicker the heat is removed from them.

Also keep in mind that twin towers are using the heated air from front tower to cool the back tower.

Combine them all and hopefully you will understand why twin tower or triple tower coolers are often no better if as good as single tower coolers.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
doyll is offline  
post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 03:32 PM
Mr.4way SLI
 
Moparman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Farmington MO
Posts: 5,443
Rep: 192 (Unique: 172)
Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Probably because they don't improve cooling.

A top tier single tower (TRUE Spirit 140 Power) is as good or better than any of the twin towers out there.

Independent testing has shown NH-D14 is every bit as good and probably a little better cooling than NH-D15 when both are using same fans, and TRUE Spirit 140 Power gives 2-3c cooler temps than D14 on i7 [email protected]

It seems heatpipe cooling is close to it's maximum ability without some sort of new tech. The change from solid material heatsink to heatpipe heatsink made a huge difference in cooling .. and some types of heatpipes perform better than others but only marginally.

There were some vapor chamber coolers marketed but they suffered from problems like base not being flat. In 2013 I tested ID-Cooling FI-REEX Deluxe (got 3 coolers to get 1 with flat base .. I was able to lap 2 flat and 34d was warped too much to even lap flat). FI-REEX is a single tower 160x140x88mm (HxWxD) w/o fans, 113mm deep w/ 1x fan, 138mm deep w/ 2x fans. It has 6x 8mm vapor chamber pipes and 2x 'U' 8mm heatpipes with a rating of 300w. I found it cooled as well as TRUE Spirit 140 Power rated 360w. ID-Cooling has discontinued FI-REEX for a black colored version called Hunter VC-3D using 2x 140mm fans. I need to try getting new Hunter VC-3D and test it.

I compared the NH-D14 years ago to a few other coolers Box stock and with same fan setups and countless hours of testing. I still use the Assassin to this day with a 3 fan setup.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-...per-212-a.html
Moparman is offline  
post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 04:26 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
white owl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: The land of Nod
Posts: 5,374
Rep: 136 (Unique: 103)
Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Probably because they don't improve cooling.

A top tier single tower (TRUE Spirit 140 Power) is as good or better than any of the twin towers out there.

Independent testing has shown NH-D14 is every bit as good and probably a little better cooling than NH-D15 when both are using same fans, and TRUE Spirit 140 Power gives 2-3c cooler temps than D14 on i7 [email protected]

It seems heatpipe cooling is close to it's maximum ability without some sort of new tech. The change from solid material heatsink to heatpipe heatsink made a huge difference in cooling .. and some types of heatpipes perform better than others but only marginally.

There were some vapor chamber coolers marketed but they suffered from problems like base not being flat. In 2013 I tested ID-Cooling FI-REEX Deluxe (got 3 coolers to get 1 with flat base .. I was able to lap 2 flat and 34d was warped too much to even lap flat). FI-REEX is a single tower 160x140x88mm (HxWxD) w/o fans, 113mm deep w/ 1x fan, 138mm deep w/ 2x fans. It has 6x 8mm vapor chamber pipes and 2x 'U' 8mm heatpipes with a rating of 300w. I found it cooled as well as TRUE Spirit 140 Power rated 360w. ID-Cooling has discontinued FI-REEX for a black colored version called Hunter VC-3D using 2x 140mm fans. I need to try getting new Hunter VC-3D and test it.
I totally agree, heat pipes have peaked and it seems like simply adding more of them or using more surface area provides diminishing improvement. The bigger towers do seem to do a little better when you're using CPUs that draw a lot of current but on desktop chips it would seem like adding more fins and pipes doesn't make the CPU any cooler.
It's kinda like idle temps, they're going to be about the same on a wide range of coolers, likely because the silicon and the oxide layer on top of it aren't great conductors of heat so they resist putting heat into the cooler.
It seems like we need a new type of cooling but IMO water is just too costly and large if you really want a step up from air.
If I'm ever flush again I may build a loop with the intention of keeping it around forever. The performance difference between EK's blocks and their knock offs are very small so rads and a pump would be my main cost...which is still pretty expensive if you want a long term pump like a D5.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpeedyVT
If you're not doing extreme things to parts for the sake of extreme things regardless of the part you're not a real overclocker.
Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
The key is generally not which brands are good but which specific products are. Motherboards and GPUs are perfect examples of companies having everything from golden to garbage function/quality.
Hot n Bothered
(12 items)
CPU
4790k 4.7Ghz
Motherboard
Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkII 2
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080 SC
RAM
16gb G.Skill Sniper 2400Mhz
Hard Drive
2x Kingston v300 120gb RAID 0
Hard Drive
WD Blue
Power Supply
Seasonic 620w M12 II EVO
Cooling
Cooler Master 212 Evo
Case
Corsair 450D
Operating System
Windows 10
Monitor
Nixeus EDG27
Other
I have pretty lights.
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by white owl; 03-12-2019 at 04:33 PM.
white owl is offline  
post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 05:17 PM
ٴٴٴ╲⎝⧹˙͜>˙⧸⎠╱
 
TK421's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,484
Rep: 160 (Unique: 125)
Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
I totally agree, heat pipes have peaked and it seems like simply adding more of them or using more surface area provides diminishing improvement. The bigger towers do seem to do a little better when you're using CPUs that draw a lot of current but on desktop chips it would seem like adding more fins and pipes doesn't make the CPU any cooler.
It's kinda like idle temps, they're going to be about the same on a wide range of coolers, likely because the silicon and the oxide layer on top of it aren't great conductors of heat so they resist putting heat into the cooler.
It seems like we need a new type of cooling but IMO water is just too costly and large if you really want a step up from air.
If I'm ever flush again I may build a loop with the intention of keeping it around forever. The performance difference between EK's blocks and their knock offs are very small so rads and a pump would be my main cost...which is still pretty expensive if you want a long term pump like a D5.



how about the corsair aios? newest version apparently use the gen 6 cooler.


I might switch out my D15 for one of the h150i (gen6 360mm) due to unable to hold temps of my 5820K below 85c beyond 1.25v.

nͫٴiͤٴcͫٴeͤ੮Һ૯ ცɿ૭ ૭คעٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴ ٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴ ٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴٴ ٴٴ
█▀█ █▄█ ▀█▀ ▀█▀


TK421 is offline  
post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 07:00 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
white owl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: The land of Nod
Posts: 5,374
Rep: 136 (Unique: 103)
Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
how about the corsair aios? newest version apparently use the gen 6 cooler.


I might switch out my D15 for one of the h150i (gen6 360mm) due to unable to hold temps of my 5820K below 85c beyond 1.25v.
I hate everything about CLCs, they remind me of toys from the $0.99 store. Even the best CLC made cools within 10% of the best air coolers while costing 100%-150% more and requires you to buy different fans if you want it to cool like what you see in the reviews and be a quiet as air cooling...which further jacks up the cost. Then there's the reliability aspect, I've seen way too many members here saying their temps have increased over a short time. Pump still works but not enough to be effective. I hate dealing with RMAs and I hate products that were made to be as cheap as possible and mostly sold on misconceptions and in some cases flat out lies.

AIOs would be an option but there aren't any that I know of that are as reliable as I'd like and they lock you into a little eco system of compatible parts.

For the $200 it would cost to get a CLC and the fans I'd be able to get a D5+res combo and probably the CPU block with some money left over. I could probably build a really solid loop for the CPU for well under $400 using a D5 and a thick 360mm rad. Then I can add a GPU block later for $25-$40.
If you wanted to cool you CPU and GPU with AIOs to significantly beat air cooling you'd already be well into what it would cost to build a custom loop.

Plus CLC's look so uninspired, so mass produced, so bland. All the people that make them are currently having an RGB/bling battle where they try to make them as tacky as they possibly can with angular body kits and small OLED screens and what not. I like the idea of RGB but hate the way it's marketed and used.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpeedyVT
If you're not doing extreme things to parts for the sake of extreme things regardless of the part you're not a real overclocker.
Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
The key is generally not which brands are good but which specific products are. Motherboards and GPUs are perfect examples of companies having everything from golden to garbage function/quality.
Hot n Bothered
(12 items)
CPU
4790k 4.7Ghz
Motherboard
Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkII 2
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080 SC
RAM
16gb G.Skill Sniper 2400Mhz
Hard Drive
2x Kingston v300 120gb RAID 0
Hard Drive
WD Blue
Power Supply
Seasonic 620w M12 II EVO
Cooling
Cooler Master 212 Evo
Case
Corsair 450D
Operating System
Windows 10
Monitor
Nixeus EDG27
Other
I have pretty lights.
▲ hide details ▲
white owl is offline  
post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 07:46 PM
Overclocker in training
 
ThrashZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 8,049
Rep: 90 (Unique: 65)
Hi,
Probably cracked a few mother boards and said oops that's not going to work

CPU
i9-9940x With Heatkiller IV Pro and VRM Plexi-Copper water block
Motherboard
ASUS x299 Rampage VI Apex
GPU
Titan Xp with copper Water Block
RAM
Trident Z 3600C16 4x8gb's b-die default timings 16-16-16-36
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500gb M.2/ Samsung 850 Pro 256gb for os and 500gb evo for favorite games plus other wd hdd's for data and backup's
Optical Drive
LG Blu-Ray WH16NS40
Power Supply
evga 1200-P2
Cooling
2-280GTX Black Ice Nemesis rads with D5 pump-res combo and D5 top before and after rads.
Case
corsair 450D with added 2nd floor to house radiator on top
Operating System
Win-7 pro & 10 pro Win-7 Primary os.
Monitor
ASUS VG248QE 24" 144Hz
Keyboard
Logitech G910 Orion spectrum
Mouse
Redragon Perdition
Audio
Built in realtek and Insignia 2.0 soundbar HSB318
CPU
i7-5930k with Heatkiller IV Pro Plexi-Copper and koolance vrm water blocks
Motherboard
X99 Sabertooth
GPU
EVGA 1080ti FTW3 with Water block
RAM
Trident-Z 3200C14 4x8gb's b-die default timings 14-14-14-34
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo 500gb M.2/ Samsung 850 Pro 256gb for os and 500gb evo for favorite games plus other wd hdd's for data and backup's
Power Supply
EVGA 1000-P2
Cooling
2-240 GTX Black Ice Nemesis rads/ D5 pump-res combo and D5 top before and after rads.
Case
Corsair 450D with added 2nd floor to house radiator on top
Operating System
Win-7 and 10 pro Win-7 Primary os.
Monitor
AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz
Mouse
Red Dragon Perdition
Audio
Built in realtek and Insignia 2.0 soundbar HSB318
Hard Drive
eLeaf MELO-3 4ml
Power Supply
SE US18650VTC6 3120mAh 30A 3.6V 18650 Li-ion Battery - GREENx4
Case
ANGIS Legion MOD 200w Geek Vape
Operating System
VapeWild RazzleBerry 50-50-0mg nic
▲ hide details ▲
ThrashZone is offline  
post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
ltpdttcdft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 592
Rep: 36 (Unique: 30)
Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Probably cracked a few mother boards and said oops that's not going to work
...and now the latest generation of coolers have wimpy springs due to Intel CPUs with thin PCBs.



ltpdttcdft is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off