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post #71 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 06:21 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by shilka View Post
From what i recall the Noctua NH-D14 came out in late 2009 or early 2010 and thats a cooler you can still buy today so what was your point?
Yes you can still buy old coolers today but why would you if you can get something better and more modern for the same amount or less
As you well know, buying newer does not mean it's any better than some of the old, even very old coolers. Some of my best cooling coolers are some of the first heatpipe coolers sold. NH-D14, Ultima 90, Ultra 120, etc. That said, I think some of the newer fans do give better airflow.

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post #72 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 08:08 AM
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It's hilarious, sad and also incredibly annoying, that so few ppl know this, even between reviewers. Even if someone completely belive what you're saying, they're incapable to fill the rest for achieving good cooling on air, because all the info out there is misleading at best.

And part of it, it's the marketing bullsh17 and manipulation of the information, and the other part, are the incompetent reviewers that don't even try to understand what they are doing.

So in order to put ppl on the right path, you have to place the same level of manipulation and exposure out there.
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post #73 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Shenhua View Post
It's hilarious, sad and also incredibly annoying, that so few ppl know this, even between reviewers. Even if someone completely belive what you're saying, they're incapable to fill the rest for achieving good cooling on air, because all the info out there is misleading at best.

And part of it, it's the marketing bullsh17 and manipulation of the information, and the other part, are the incompetent reviewers that don't even try to understand what they are doing.

So in order to put ppl on the right path, you have to place the same level of manipulation and exposure out there.
Only too true. Component companies do not what accurate testing in reviews. They only want reviews saying what a great product they have.



Probably best example of extreme false / missleading test results is CLC vs air coolers where testing is done in a stock case with horrible airflow and radiator is mounted as intake .. and because air cooler is receiving air 5-15c warmer than CLC is obviously it's CPU temps are also 5-15c higher.



To be fair there are the rare few testers who monitor and use actual cooler intake air temp to determine cooler delta temps, but they are indeed the very rare few. Even then results are not perfect. There are also a few using synthetic heat sources instead of actual CPUs .. (not going to say this is better but in all likelyhood it is) .. as well as monitoring cooler intake air temp. Problem is these few sites that do more accurate testing do not get the large number of samples to test because they are so much more accurate.

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post #74 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 08:52 AM
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This product is the prime example of how most purchases are based solely on emotion and what steps to follow if excecuting bait & switch (is not B&S but could be). Sell it for 20,- 10 years ago, gain rep, make it 35,- and nobody bats an eye because they've been tricked into thinking it's somehow relevant purchase even today.

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post #75 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 09:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Only too true. Component companies do not what accurate testing in reviews. They only want reviews saying what a great product they have.



Probably best example of extreme false / missleading test results is CLC vs air coolers where testing is done in a stock case with horrible airflow and radiator is mounted as intake .. and because air cooler is receiving air 5-15c warmer than CLC is obviously it's CPU temps are also 5-15c higher.



To be fair there are the rare few testers who monitor and use actual cooler intake air temp to determine cooler delta temps, but they are indeed the very rare few. Even then results are not perfect. There are also a few using synthetic heat sources instead of actual CPUs .. (not going to say this is better but in all likelyhood it is) .. as well as monitoring cooler intake air temp. Problem is these few sites that do more accurate testing do not get the large number of samples to test because they are so much more accurate.
You're going too far man. A simple 3 (cases with low, medium and high airflow) setups battery of test would show how coolers scale and how good or bad they are, even if the numbers are not completely exact.

Last edited by Shenhua; 04-28-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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post #76 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Shenhua View Post
You're going too far man. A simple 3 (cases with low, medium and high airflow) setups battery of test would show how coolers scale and how good or bad they are, even if the numbers are not accurate.
Seems a contradition; how can coolers be compared if the testing is not accurate? More to the point how can the CPU temps even be compared if we do not know the air temp into cooler and therefore don't have any kind of delta temp of air vs CPU? I've done a lot cooler testing over the years and have found the air temp into cooler inside of a case is very different than on open bench .. and I've found that there is almost exaxtly a 1:1 ratio between air temp into cooler nad CPU temp. In other words if cooler intake air changes 3c so does CPU. Yet even today most reviewer testing cooler performance do not monitor the air temp into cooler at same time as they take the CPU readings .. meaning their results have no baseline and are therefore totally inaacurate.



Computer component testing is not about which components are better than others as much as it is about reviewers supporting their suppliers of free components to test and on which they depend in order to be able to do more reviewing and making false claims of how great the products are .. because if they don't show support for free samples they will not likely not be getting any more.

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post #77 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 11:14 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Seems a contradition; how can coolers be compared if the testing is not accurate? More to the point how can the CPU temps even be compared if we do not know the air temp into cooler and therefore don't have any kind of delta temp of air vs CPU? I've done a lot cooler testing over the years and have found the air temp into cooler inside of a case is very different than on open bench .. and I've found that there is almost exaxtly a 1:1 ratio between air temp into cooler nad CPU temp. In other words if cooler intake air changes 3c so does CPU. Yet even today most reviewer testing cooler performance do not monitor the air temp into cooler at same time as they take the CPU readings .. meaning their results have no baseline and are therefore totally inaacurate.



Computer component testing is not about which components are better than others as much as it is about reviewers supporting their suppliers of free components to test and on which they depend in order to be able to do more reviewing and making false claims of how great the products are .. because if they don't show support for free samples they will not likely not be getting any more.
I meant completly exact.

Even if u dont get bleeding edge accuracy, you can still see how it scales, behave and have an idea where is its limit.

Last edited by Shenhua; 04-28-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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post #78 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Other posts here have clearly shown there are several other coolers of similar price to 212. As for your joke about'longevity', name a similar cooler that will not last just as long. I have one of the first heatpipe coolers made from back in 2007, Thermalright's original 4x heatpipe Ultra 120, still in use today. When did 212 came out?
Not a "joke" but the first link to the 212 that I have found was on 31 Oct 2007. There may be other links but have found two right off the bat.

One from Proclockers.

https://proclockers.com/reviews/cool...-cooler-review

And the other is an Anandtech 2007 Review. Which gives some history about CoolerMaster and a reference to Socket 7 which is pretty old tech. Although likely older than the Hyper 212. Anyone remember ORYX?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2366

Quote: Originally Posted by shilka View Post
From what i recall the Noctua NH-D14 came out in late 2009 or early 2010 and thats a cooler you can still buy today so what was your point?
Yes you can still buy old coolers today but why would you if you can get something better and more modern for the same amount or less
My point was that if it weren't a solid Cooler that it wouldn't be in ANYONES' top list. I would think that stood out as it was written. But sometimes I expect too much from the reader, so I get it. Maybe I should have written it. My bad.

Quote: Originally Posted by Owterspace View Post
So, your ambient was 60f and you are wondering why you are getting such good temps with your 212.. just wait till summer lol. Let’s see how it does with 75f. You are preaching to the wrong choir with his guy. You can never persuade me into believing the almighty 212 is the best cooler. Especially when I have two other coolers that absolutely destroys the 212 in every possible way, except price. Last time I looked 212 evo was 35 on the egg. My TS140P was $15 more than the 212.

So when you come back “after messing with your clock speed this weekend” make sure you run it hard, build some heat for awhile, let it get heat soaked. And close your window so it’s not 60f lol. Because next month it won’t be that cool.
Different CPU but was a bit of a heat generator when I ran the 212 on my CIVFormula, atop my lapped 955BE in my HAF932 it got pretty solid performance from the 212 with a 4.0ghz clock during the Summer. But hey, not like I have any experience with the 212 during the Summer. Even experience with the heat generated by an Eastward Sun in a house that is North to South orientated. Sure AC was on but only to keep things comfortable. I live in the Northwest. We don't get super warm days until mid to late July and sometimes not until the first 2 weeks of August. The winds blowing through the Columbia Gorge keep things pretty mild for most of the Summer unless there is a pretty big fire in my neck of the woods.

All I was saying is that it's a bit impressive that the 212 has been around for over 10 years and that it's still showing up in top 5-10 lists. If you don't think that's impressive then kewl, I cannot fault you. I will simply roll my eyes(nicely ofc) and you can keep your opinion. It's yours and you've made up your mind and far be it for me to change it. For the same money spent, there are some solid options out there if you don't want a 212. But if you read the title of this thread, it should come as no surprise that there are people who like if not love the 212. I happen to be one of those people. Though I am not married to the 212 as I custom watercool. EK parts abound in all my systems unless they are waiting for something to complete their Custom loop. Such as Black Snow, which is waiting for its Case on my Open Bench table.

I just would like to know how it's the fault of ANY cooler, which type of Case it ends up in? I would think that's on the builder not the cooler or its manufacturer. If you purchased an air starved case and got doo doo temps, well then you are the person to blame for the doo doo temps. Same for leaving a moderate mid level fan on a cheap cooler. I purchased all my Cutom loop parts at the same time for Black Snow. Sadly the case I was eyeing sold out before I can put it to use. That's okay because I made certain to have a cooler to bench every component and make sure there were no issues with the system. And the cooler that is in use is married to the Open Bench table and the table only. Those go on the shelf for the next build. And the one after that and so on. They aren't intended for aggresive overclocking. Not that I won't try. Did it last night and was pretty aggressive with an immediate 4.1ghz over stock of 3.6ghz. POSTed but was a touch finicky so I backed it down. I doubt that any of the other cheap coolers would've done any better in that circumstance. So one thing I do know? I know not to expect too much from them. I don't give a rip what a Review says is possible because not all experiences will be the same nor all use case scenarios. Mine sure as Hades isn't. I know what I got the 212 for and it works for what I got it for. I could've gotten any old cheapo cooler when I bought the 212 and they all would have filled the bill nicely I am sure. But I have experience with the 212 EVO and so that's what I got. I have owned quite a few of them. Had I had issues with the first one I never would've purchased another. And I don't simply purchase coolers because they are cheap or on a whim.

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post #79 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 04:35 PM
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Its all good man. Its not the worst, I don't know why I rag on it so hard, its just not what its hyped up to be. Some people love it, others look at it with disdain

I have an old Stacker 830 with a removable mobo tray.. one thing I really like about that cooler is that I can slide the tray out, I don't have to pull the cooler or the board. All of the other coolers I have had I have not been able to slide the tray out.. I always have to pull the cooler to do it. But for anything serious, if I know I'm gonna pound on the system, its not my "go to" choice. It does have its place.. It is super compact, almost tiny. but if I was looking at a 120mm cooler, Id probably go with something from Thermalright, or maybe Noctua now that they have that little beastie.

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post #80 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 05:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Shenhua View Post
I meant completly exact.

Even if u dont get bleeding edge accuracy, you can still see how it scales, behave and have an idea where is its limit.
But when they test without even monitoring the air temp into cooler (especially in a case built test system) they have no baseline air temp for air temp into cooler. Reason is different coolers draw air from slightly different orientation and volume and therefore the temp will be radically different than the temp of room.



The above is the main reason cooler test results from different reveiw sites even when on same CPU generally generally get temps radically different from other reveiws.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
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