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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thoughts about Ryzen 3000/Zen 2

Hi,

can we have a discussion about cooling the new Zen 2 chips (especially regarding 3800X/3900X/3950X)?
What I think are some caveats:

1) High heat disposition because of the 7 nm process' density.
2) Chiplet design. Instead of having one monolotihic die in the middle of the package there are chiplets allocated in different parts of the package.
3) AMD vs Intel concave/convex controversy.
4) The lower the temperature, the better PBO works.

I would also like to give some more ressources to the above points.

Chiplet design of Zen: https://i.imgur.com/6NQ8QD4.jpg
Recommended thermal paste application: https://i.imgur.com/Rp8w5kV.jpg
Concave/Convex base plate problems: https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-...l#post27938574 , https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-...l#post28020736
High temperatures across different Ryzen 3000 reviews, even with high end air coolers like NH-D15 SE.

Does anyone with a Ryzen 3000/Zen 2 have some insight into those topics?
What should one get when looking for the best cooling performance?
What I've gathered from posts and user feedbacks accross forums and reddit:
High end air coolers like NH-D15 SE, Le Grand Macho or Dark Rock 4 Pro are being pushed to the max, because the heat transfers isn't as efficient as with older CPUs.
AIOs are still crap.
High End AIOs like Eisbär or equivalent are better than above mentioned air coolers.
The gap between custom water cooling and high end coolers widens more and is maybe necessary for 3900X/3950X OC.

What do you guys think and how are you going to cool your new Ryzen builds?

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 09:04 AM
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i was just gonna get a cryorig h5 but now im wondering if i should look more into this lol
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 10:12 AM
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Hardwareunboxed tested and it was 100MHz going from the Wraith Prism boxed cooler to a 360mm AIO


Yes you are correct however, the step up from Wraith Prism is to a midtier cooler such as a Thermalright Macho (aka ARO-M14G) / Scythe Mugen 5 / NH-U14S / etc , before going to full copper watercooler (Swiftech Drive x3, Alphacool Eisbaer , etc with 6W pump) and then to full copper with D5 pump.



As for the Cryorig H5 there's better options at ~$50 such as the Scythe Mugen 5.

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 05:15 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by HalongPort View Post
Hi,

can we have a discussion about cooling the new Zen 2 chips (especially regarding 3800X/3900X/3950X)?
What I think are some caveats:

1) High heat disposition because of the 7 nm process' density.
2) Chiplet design. Instead of having one monolotihic die in the middle of the package there are chiplets allocated in different parts of the package.
3) AMD vs Intel concave/convex controversy.
4) The lower the temperature, the better PBO works.

I would also like to give some more ressources to the above points.

Chiplet design of Zen: https://i.imgur.com/6NQ8QD4.jpg
Recommended thermal paste application: https://i.imgur.com/Rp8w5kV.jpg
Concave/Convex base plate problems: https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-...l#post27938574 , https://www.overclock.net/forum/246-...l#post28020736
High temperatures across different Ryzen 3000 reviews, even with high end air coolers like NH-D15 SE.

Does anyone with a Ryzen 3000/Zen 2 have some insight into those topics?
What should one get when looking for the best cooling performance?
What I've gathered from posts and user feedbacks accross forums and reddit:
High end air coolers like NH-D15 SE, Le Grand Macho or Dark Rock 4 Pro are being pushed to the max, because the heat transfers isn't as efficient as with older CPUs.
AIOs are still crap.
High End AIOs like Eisbär or equivalent are better than above mentioned air coolers.
The gap between custom water cooling and high end coolers widens more and is maybe necessary for 3900X/3950X OC.

What do you guys think and how are you going to cool your new Ryzen builds?

Lots of questions, many not easily answered.



A good air cooler in a case with good airflow will keep up with all but the very best AIO and custom loops.



Probably the best air cooler and also very low priced is Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power. Changing the fan to a TY-143 and upgrade case fans to similar (TY-143 SQ are great) so case is supplying cooler with air at or very near room ambient and it cooled 920 @ 4.3GHz to 45.8c delta at 2500rpm compared to 54.2c delta at 1200rpm .. that is 8.4c cool but sounding like a jet engine doing it. Using 2x TY-143 push/pull only lowered temps another 2.55c.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 07:24 AM
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Here's a picture of Ryzen IHS relative to I/O die & chiplet alignment:

X application of thermal paste should be fine for this design I'm guessing.

Ryzen 3000 doesn't really use too much power but its heat density is extremely high, around 35-40% higher compared to a hot chip like a 9900k(according to The Stilt's numbers from this thread: https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-a...-really.html); but, Tjunction for Ryzen 2 is around 95C so you should be fine even the temperature is a bit on the high side.

There's also the issues with Precision Boost behaviour causing the cores to wake up from sleep and causing higher idle voltages/temperatures so that might also create some misdirection related to temperatures(related thread from Robert Hallock here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...3rd_gen_ryzen/).

But all in all, it comes down to your cooling setup. High end air coolers in a well ventilated case should be just fine even on a 3950X which will likely not require any more power at stock than a 3900X.


Consider also that you're not likely to get a drastic performance improvement from the CPU using even the highest end cooling setup since high end SKUs are already running at the silicon's limits, best you'll get would probably be 2-3% if you're lucky. I think it'd be best to spend less on cooling by going with a high end air cooler, good case and good case fans instead of going crazy with a custom loop. You can spend the difference on a GPU or/and a high end SR 1 DPC b-die kit(3200C14/3600C15) and overclock the RAM and IF to likely get better results. Frequency overclock has never been the strong suit of Zen CPUs anyway and RAM overclock provided the best gains because it's tied to Infinity Fabric.

Last edited by Brightmist; 07-16-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input!
Should I go with the LGM or the TSP 140?
The thing with Thermalright in my country is, that it is either out of stock or oddly priced.
Right now, both cost the same (50€).


I also found this post from the TPU forums:
Quote: Originally Posted by phanbuey
But really the grand macho is designed to cool silently and can deal with a decent heat-load, but it doesn't do so well with hue spikes in temperatures (i.e. skylake X, 9900k etc.) in my case - so trying to turn it into a high performance cooler that dissipates a ton of heat quickly is really not what it was designed for, you would get better results with a D15 or an AIO for that.
Thinking about PBO and the voltage spikes with the new Ryzen, maybe the TSP 140 is the better fit than LGM?

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 02:16 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by HalongPort View Post
The thing with Thermalright in my country is, that it is either out of stock or oddly priced.
Managed to snag this model off Ebay for my FT03 case (which includes shipping to my 3rd World Country).

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Thermalr...72.m2749.l2649

According to it's height measurement which is around 141mm, it should sit nicely within my Silverstone case, lowest 120mm cooler that is currently available. Trust Thermalright to come to another PC case, in my collection .
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 03:02 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Elrick View Post
Managed to snag this model off Ebay for my FT03 case (which includes shipping to my 3rd World Country).

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Thermalr...72.m2749.l2649

According to it's height measurement which is around 141mm, it should sit nicely within my Silverstone case, lowest 120mm cooler that is currently available. Trust Thermalright to come to another PC case, in my collection .
TRUE Spirit 140 Direct is 161.2mm tall. Fan is 141x141mm. Should fit nicely in FT03.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
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@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 05:39 AM
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Here is an article from Gamernexus about cooling and OC: https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/...lers-and-cases
tl;dr: Try to keep your Ryzen below 60°C.

I don't know whether it is possible with air cooling, but I guess it's not worth it.
Just go with anything that is silent enough for you or get a high end custom water cooling setup.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 06:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by vonHannawald View Post
Here is an article from Gamernexus about cooling and OC: https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/...lers-and-cases
tl;dr: Try to keep your Ryzen below 60°C.

I don't know whether it is possible with air cooling, but I guess it's not worth it.
Just go with anything that is silent enough for you or get a high end custom water cooling setup.
The 6 core and probably on the 8 core with low ambient. The 12 core will need a lot of rad space.

Here is a 6 core.


[email protected] 6 http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2211392 4.6 @ 4 http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2216580
5.0 @ 8 http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2511322
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