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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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3900x / 3950x. Want to improve cooling. Help?

Long time lurker, recently signed up on the site. I have spent A LOT of time reading through doyll's posts and threads among other places on the internet. Very insightful, but I still had some questions for my particular config / environment.

I currently have the following configuration: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/goldca...r/saved/HnsxGX with a soon to be 3950x that is staring at me as I type this, lol.

I did have to remove a panel to make room for the USB 3.0 cable on the mobo. I have attached a stock photo with a red circle around that panel.

I am looking at case fans and proper air flow on this case. I know the stock case fans are junk. Based on what I have read, it seems it is a good idea to remove the PCIe slots, no exhaust fan, and having 2 to 3 strong intake fans will be plenty.

I was thinking I would have 3 to 4 intake fans and 2 exhaust fans, but my research seems to show that is not necessarily the best route.

I have been down so many rabbit holes tonight on case fans I am a bit cross eyed. Budget and sound are not a concern. I am concerned about performance only. I started out looking at Noctua NF-A14 PWM then read about the Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM. I believe the front of this case blocks part of the air flow of a 140mm fan as well.

I have been happy with my CPU cooler choice, but now worried I picked wrong based on threads on here.

I am just now getting to worry about temps because outside temps will soon go up in my area. It gets pretty hot and humid in my summers. We keep the thermostat set to 68F (20C) during the summer.

I hope I didn't miss anything to get this conversation started. I hope to learn more and perhaps provide a place for others to learn as well.
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3950x, Gigabyte X570 Xtreme, Team Dark Pro 16GB (2x8GB), MSI RTX 2080 Ti Gaming X Trio, Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360.
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:20 AM
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Why no exhaust fan????

And the nh-d15 is not a bad choice at all. People just say there are cheaper options that perform in a similar fashion.

I use 2 140mm noctua in the front of my case, and 1 120 in the back. I have the define c, though, which doesn't have all that space towards the front. I get more direct airflow at lower rpm over my components.

I see that you have an EATX, so you'll just need some good cfm from those fronts.

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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 07:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GoldCartGamer View Post
Long time lurker, recently signed up on the site. I have spent A LOT of time reading through doyll's posts and threads among other places on the internet. Very insightful, but I still had some questions for my particular config / environment.

I currently have the following configuration: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/goldca...r/saved/HnsxGX with a soon to be 3950x that is staring at me as I type this, lol.

I did have to remove the a panel to make room for the USB 3.0 cable on the mobo. I have attached a stock photo with a red circle around that panel.

I am looking at case fans and proper air flow on this case. I know the stock case fans are junk. Based on what I have read, it seems it is a good idea to remove the PCIe slots, no exhaust fan, and having 2 to 3 strong intake fans will be plenty.

I was thinking I would have 3 to 4 intake fans and 2 exhaust fans, but my research seems to show that is not necessarily the best route.

I have been down so many rabbit holes tonight on case fans I am a bit cross eyed. Budget and sound are not a concern. I am concerned about performance only. I started out looking at Noctua NF-A14 PWM then read about the Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM. I believe the front of thise case blocks part of the air flow of a 140mm fan as well.

I have been happy with my CPU cooler choice, but now worried I picked wrong based on threads on here.

I am just now getting to worry about temps because outside temps will soon go up in my area. It gets pretty hot and humid in my summers. We keep the thermostat set to 68F (20C) during the summer.

I hope I didn't miss anything to get this conversation started. I hope to learn more and perhaps provide a place for others to learn as well.

No idea what JayRock going on about no case exhaust fans. Haven't used case exhust fans in years. ̶P̶u̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶c̶k̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶s̶ Replace stock fans with 3x 140mm high pressure rated fans, run all 3 in front as intakes and block any openings in fan mounting panel not covered by fans so air they push into case has to flow through case and out the back, not leak thru mounting panel in front and end up going in circles. Also block bottom venting in front of PSU for same reason, so air being pushed in front has to move thorugh case and out back, not leak out bottom. That should be all the case fans you need.

NH-D15 is good cooler, Assuming it fits and doesn't block PCIe sockets because of it's width and centered base. NH-D15S is better because of it's offset base. Other compaint I have is price. There are other coolers just as good for much less money.

Link below is about how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html

Ideally monitor airflow temp entering coolers. Above links show how to make a very low cost monitoring thermometer. Air temp into coolers should be no more than 4-5c warmer than air around case intakes. Almost all my builds are 2-3c at most warmer into coolers. That is with both CPU and GPU at full load.


Edit:

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base

Last edited by doyll; 03-27-2020 at 09:29 AM.
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 07:55 AM
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You dont need a 1200 watt PSU for that build its more than double then the machine will ever draw
Or did you buy it already

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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 08:21 AM
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if you are okay with more frequently cleaning your rig and/or don't live in a dusty environment you can remove the top and rear dust filter super easily on the Meshify S2 (and if you're using the top as exhaust then can take it out regardless of your de-dusting laziness ).

the included GP-14 fans aren't really that terrible (going by included-for-free case fan standards), you can use them as exhaust and save a few bucks.

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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 08:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
No idea what JayRock going on about no case exhaust fans. Haven't used case exhust fans in years. Put all 3 of the stock fans in front and block any openings in fan mounting panel not covered by fans so air they push into case has to flow through case and out the back, not leak thru mounting panel in front and end up going in circles. Also block bottom venting for same reason, so air being pushed in front has to move thorugh case and out back, not leak out bottom. That should be all the case fans you need.

NH-D15 is good cooler, Assuming it fits and doesn't block PCIe sockets because of it's width and centered base. NH-D15S is better because of it's offset base. Other compaint I have is price. There are other coolers just as good for much less money.

Link below is about how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html


Ideally monitor airflow temp entering coolers. Above links show how to make a very low cost monitoring thermometer. Air temp into coolers should be no more than 4-5c warmer than air around case intakes. Almost all my builds are 2-3c at most warmer into coolers. That is with both CPU and GPU at full load.
He edited. He said no exhaust. I should have quoted.

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 08:42 AM
Stock is too casual~
 
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As everything is bought already, the only advice i could give for cooling is to actually flatten out the new buying cooler and the Ryzen
Also as i check the setup and you're focused on Mogami XLR cables + the expensive Mic stand = clearly going for quality over quantity
You might want to check out der8auers AM4 mounting bracket - with compatible bracket mounting coolers
That should give you 5-6c more - oh if the paste is not bought, you could try writing OCUK or Caseking
(well or roman directly via business mail) if you can buy a sample of the new Kryonaut Extreme
Except for lapping, the bracket, fixing airflow and a good paste - there's nothing to do
Your last option would be, learning how ryzen 3rd gen behaves and that way lowering predefined voltages for 50-60W less usage

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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 09:23 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jayrock View Post
He edited. He said no exhaust. I should have quoted.
His post reads:
"Why no exhaust fan????"
Like building a system without exhaust fans is going against physics. Reality is what flows into a case must also flow out, and with same or little more exhaust venting and no exhaust fans a case will flow just as well and run just as cool as a case with exhaust fans, and often do it with less noise.

I was wrong saying to use the stock fans. I looked at Dynamic X2 GP-14 PWM with specs of 1.95mmH2O or 105.9cfm @ 1600rpm, high enough pressure rating to overcome filter and grill resistance. Normal Dynamic X2 GP-14 fans are a wimpy 0.71mmH2O or 68.4cfm @ 1000rpm, not even close to high enough pressure rating to overcome grill and filter resistance.

I posted assuming GoldCartGamer already has components listed. If not, shilka is correct, that power supply has way more power than will ever need needed.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base

Last edited by doyll; 03-27-2020 at 09:32 AM.
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jayrock View Post
Why no exhaust fan????

And the nh-d15 is not a bad choice at all. People just say there are cheaper options that perform in a similar fashion.

I use 2 140mm noctua in the front of my case, and 1 120 in the back. I have the define c, though, which doesn't have all that space towards the front. I get more direct airflow at lower rpm over my components.

I see that you have an EATX, so you'll just need some good cfm from those fronts.
I was saying based on my research an exhaust fan appears to be not needed.

Price is not an issue to me when it comes to building a PC so that's good to hear. I always prefer quality and top performing parts over price and looks.

Hmm yea the space is a bit different in my case versus the C series from Factal. Thanks for the feedback though. What are your idle temps, load temps, and ambient temps?

Why do you say that? For the VRM? My VRM temps stay really cool due to the design of the board. Or at least what I think is cool for VRM's on a motherboard.


Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
No idea what JayRock going on about no case exhaust fans. Haven't used case exhust fans in years. ̶P̶u̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶c̶k̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶s̶ Replace stock fans with 3x 140mm high pressure rated fans, run all 3 in front as intakes and block any openings in fan mounting panel not covered by fans so air they push into case has to flow through case and out the back, not leak thru mounting panel in front and end up going in circles. Also block bottom venting in front of PSU for same reason, so air being pushed in front has to move thorugh case and out back, not leak out bottom. That should be all the case fans you need.

NH-D15 is good cooler, Assuming it fits and doesn't block PCIe sockets because of it's width and centered base. NH-D15S is better because of it's offset base. Other compaint I have is price. There are other coolers just as good for much less money.

Link below is about how airflow works and how to optimize case airflow.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/22319249-post5.html

Ideally monitor airflow temp entering coolers. Above links show how to make a very low cost monitoring thermometer. Air temp into coolers should be no more than 4-5c warmer than air around case intakes. Almost all my builds are 2-3c at most warmer into coolers. That is with both CPU and GPU at full load.


Edit:
I saw your recommandation of no exhaust fans and did a bunch of research on that last night. I then remembered some CAD stations I built at a prior employer. We never used exhaust fans and they always had great cooling. I think I even started experimenting with different fans and sizes as well as removal of PCIe slots. I ended up changing employers not too long after I started those tests. Kind of wish I had stated sooner. Heck my AMD EPYC servers have only intake performance fans and stay really cool. It makes more sense as I thought about it last night.

Yea the stock case fans are absolute garbage. They are the 3 pin, not the PWM ones. I have even cranked them up to 100% and they barely move any air. Would the 3rd 140mm fan not suffer due to positioning on the case? It flows partly into the PSU shroud area. I have to remove the small panel from the shroud at the front of the case to fit a 3rd fan so perhaps that would allow some air to flow. I also believe the Meshify S2 design on the intake mounting points block part of the 140mm fans. I will look into blocking the bottom. I currently have my PSU oriented facing downwards and it sits on my desk instead of the carpeted floor.

It fits and doesn't block the PCIe slot. It does slightly block the first m.2 socket, but so does my GPU. The drive doesn't appear to get hot under load though. I am guessing due to the heatsink for that socket. I use the heatsink that came with board in that socket. I was not aware of that about the NH-D15S. Good to know for future builds. Thank you for that info.

Thank you for the link. I will look over it again and ask you if I have any questions from that page.




Quote: Originally Posted by shilka View Post
You dont need a 1200 watt PSU for that build its more than double then the machine will ever draw
Or did you buy it already
It was already bought and installed last year. Based on the efficiency curve I am right where I want to be in comparison to smaller PSU's.




Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
if you are okay with more frequently cleaning your rig and/or don't live in a dusty environment you can remove the top and rear dust filter super easily on the Meshify S2 (and if you're using the top as exhaust then can take it out regardless of your de-dusting laziness ).

the included GP-14 fans aren't really that terrible (going by included-for-free case fan standards), you can use them as exhaust and save a few bucks.
I live in an environment with 4 pets so I don't want to remove those filters if possible. There is a rear filter? Last I checked there is only front, top, and bottom. Currently the case fans are stock with stock config. They aren't cutting it.

The included fans are junk based on the specs and what little air they actually move. True they aren't terrible for "free" case fans.


Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
As everything is bought already, the only advice i could give for cooling is to actually flatten out the new buying cooler and the Ryzen
Also as i check the setup and you're focused on Mogami XLR cables + the expensive Mic stand = clearly going for quality over quantity
You might want to check out der8auers AM4 mounting bracket - with compatible bracket mounting coolers
That should give you 5-6c more - oh if the paste is not bought, you could try writing OCUK or Caseking
(well or roman directly via business mail) if you can buy a sample of the new Kryonaut Extreme
Except for lapping, the bracket, fixing airflow and a good paste - there's nothing to do
Your last option would be, learning how ryzen 3rd gen behaves and that way lowering predefined voltages for 50-60W less usage

Looking forward to your build
Yes I go for quality and top performing. Price and looks come last. But I prefer no RGB if possible. I turned off the RGB on my motherboard and GPU first day. I also bought my case because I wanted a panel that wasn't see through. It is so hard to find a case nowadays that has a solid panel.

I saw those brackets. I am very interested in them. He doesn't make a bracket for Noctua yet, but said it is something he is looking into after so many requests. I am not a water cooled fan at all and his brackets almost got me to buy an EVGA 360 CLC or something similiar.

I bought more of the paste already for my 3950x. I wasn't aware of Kryonaut Extreme. I may reach out to them and see what they say.

Right now I am hoping by fixing the airflow in the case that will help some. I have OC'd the CPU very lightly and OC'd the GPU. RAM is also OC'd. I am still learning how the CPU works so I can better OC it and dial it in. I didn't dig too deep into 3900x since I would have to start over with 3950x. Also, never know the quality of silicon. I think I got lucky with 3900x, but hoping the same for my 3950x.

Thank you. So far it has been a blast. I came from a 10 year old laptop and a cheap i5-7400 desktop.


Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
His post reads:
"Why no exhaust fan????"
Like building a system without exhaust fans is going against physics. Reality is what flows into a case must also flow out, and with same or little more exhaust venting and no exhaust fans a case will flow just as well and run just as cool as a case with exhaust fans, and often do it with less noise.

I was wrong saying to use the stock fans. I looked at Dynamic X2 GP-14 PWM with specs of 1.95mmH2O or 105.9cfm @ 1600rpm, high enough pressure rating to overcome filter and grill resistance. Normal Dynamic X2 GP-14 fans are a wimpy 0.71mmH2O or 68.4cfm @ 1000rpm, not even close to high enough pressure rating to overcome grill and filter resistance.

I posted assuming GoldCartGamer already has components listed. If not, shilka is correct, that power supply has way more power than will ever need needed.
Yep. Too bad it didn't come with the PWM fan version.

Correct. This build is already assembled and running as of end of July / beginning of August of 2019.

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 12:49 PM
Stock is too casual~
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by GoldCartGamer View Post
I saw those brackets. I am very interested in them. He doesn't make a bracket for Noctua yet, but said it is something he is looking into after so many requests. I am not a water cooled fan at all and his brackets almost got me to buy an EVGA 360 CLC or something similiar.
I understand you, i dislike CLCs which are not full copper everywhere
Sadly the market still awaits some because of the global lockdown - In Win & Asus's ROG full copper one still is in undefined ETA (likely 2 months more)
Your current best options for full copper CLCs where Alphacool their and Swiftech H X3 series
Quote: Originally Posted by GoldCartGamer View Post
I bought more of the paste already for my 3950x. I wasn't aware of Kryonaut Extreme. I may reach out to them and see what they say.
The Kryo Extreme is sometimes featured in their videos as pink paste
KINGPIN has one which is very stiff and works good enough (the kryonaut good enough range)
But the Kryo Extreme has to be requested personally - it exists since 2017 and continues to be developed further
He does give it to some OCers, but so far only under personal request - because it's not under global production status

Quote: Originally Posted by GoldCartGamer View Post
I have OC'd the CPU very lightly and OC'd the GPU. RAM is also OC'd. I am still learning how the CPU works so I can better OC it and dial it in. I didn't dig too deep into 3900x since I would have to start over with 3950x. Also, never know the quality of silicon. I think I got lucky with 3900x, but hoping the same for my 3950x.

Thank you. So far it has been a blast. I came from a 10 year old laptop and a cheap i5-7400 desktop.
Correct. This build is already assembled and running as of end of July / beginning of August of 2019.
This might turn into offtopic, but can you tell me what you OC'd at which voltages
You have to know your voltage range because every sillicon has an unique allcore voltage
Only the maximum voltage of 1.48v does stay as known limit - while new Agesa & new SMU can push it to 1.5
This is some post to read about how to find out unique sillicon voltage, do not use online values for OCing
The cpu is far more capable to OC themself than most OCers tries
Unless you've worken on finding out FIT voltage for your sillicon - i strongly advice against running anything over 1.3v on it and using per CCX OC
On some, hardlimit might even be 1.28x - soo know your FIT voltage before you attempt to beat the FIT module and AMDs research

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CPU > TR 1950X [email protected]1.2v & [email protected]1.365v[105Mhz FSB](3.23Beta)
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