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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 05:56 AM
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Hi,
lol according to you okay feel free dude

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 06:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
lol according to you okay feel free dude
According to anyone who is trying to discover and mitigate issues rather than conceal or ignore them.

Most people wouldn't trust a rope that was only tested to 500 pounds with a 500 pound load day in and day out; a water tank that was never tested past 150psi with 150psi in normal use; 120mph tires on an automobile that could expect to reach 120mph; the chamber on a firearm that hadn't been proved at 25% higher pressure than it was ever going to be loaded with...etc and so forth. There is essentially no well-regarded product or system out there that doesn't work in significant margins to account for outliers, wear and tear, or less than perfect conditions.

Likewise, I wouldn't trust a system that was overclocked as far as possible while still passing a few hours of Blender with real rendering work, let alone anything potentially more stressful. If I'm going to put hundreds or thousands of hours of render jobs on a system, only using rendering as a stress test would take prohibitively long while still resulting in a lower degree of confidence than using a combination of tests that go well beyond the the peak expected stresses of the final intended use.

The whole 'stable as long as you don't actually use it' doctrine of moving goal posts by eliminating tests that don't paint as optimistic a picture as one had hoped for (something that really took off in the mainstream overclocking scene when AVX first showed up) might be fine for toys, but not everyone considers their systems, even their overclocked ones, to only be toys.

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 06:28 AM
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Hi,
Think you're just over doing testing for a meager 3.9 test lol and suggesting a power virus and some sort of silly verification ... blah...

And give me crap for suggesting blender good grief.

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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 06:33 AM
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I think what ThrashZone is getting at is any test that is taxing system beyond the maximum load level of user is a waste to time.

Therefore use a test program that runs loads similar to maximum user loads are practical while running, something P95 does not do.

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 06:37 AM
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Hi,
Object is only getting the cpu at 100% load
Blender render does that easily

Best stability is actually gaming not p95

You can run p95 all day and die in 2 minutes running a game.

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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 06:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
I think what ThrashZone is getting at is any test that is taxing system beyond the maximum load level of user is a waste to time.
That is what he's saying.

I'm saying he's very wrong.

Testing well beyond maximum intended user load is the only reliable way to find issues that may still be present under user load without extremely protracted test periods.

Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Object is only getting the cpu at 100% load
Blender render does that easily
Almost anything can get a part to use 100% of available cycles, but this doesn't even begin to imply that all such loads are equal.

Overall load is directly related to power consumption of the part, but even then one cannot assume that all logic is being fully utilized just because a test is using more logic than others.

Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Best stability is actually gaming not p95

You can run p95 all day and die in 2 minutes running a game.
No single test is best for all loads and the reason you'll see phenomena like a system passing CPU/memory subsystem tests but crash in gaming is that gaming uses more than just CPU and memory.

This is no reason to neglect more intensive CPU/memory tests, but damn good incentive to not limit ones self to them. Other tests are important as is combination testing to hit as many subsystems as possible simultaneously...at least if you really care about stability outside a narrow set of circumstances.

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 07:10 AM
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Hi,
Is there at least one of your replies addressing the op directly instead of all this back and forth about p95 is great crap ?

Okay I give up you are the great blameless give it a rest

CPU
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 07:40 AM
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Bottom line here is best load test is one user will be using in normal use. I test with 2 applications of Handbrake running at 100% because I encode videos and it's the highest load application I will ever use. But it is also a very good real world CPU load test.


Testing well beyond limits is a joke. You don't test a 1/4 mile dragster on a road course and a formula 1 car on 1/4 mile drag strip. Same logic applies to testing our computers' cooling and stability.

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Last edited by doyll; 04-23-2020 at 08:35 AM.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 08:09 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Is there at least one of your replies addressing the op directly instead of all this back and forth about p95 is great crap ?

Okay I give up you are the great blameless give it a rest
Yes, my first post in this thread addressed the OP's temperature question. In worst case loads, a 1GHz OC on a 5820K (3.3GHz base to 4.3GHz, or thereabouts) is probably too hot for an NH-D15. Of course, this being a forum thread anyone can read, any of these replies may be of relevance to anyone viewing them.

My issue was with your presumption that the OP wouldn't be doing anything that would justify more than Blender as a CPU stress test. This could be true, but we do not know. That it's an HEDT platform certainly doesn't imply, to me, that it's going to be used for less intensive work than a mainstream part.

"p95 is great" is a misinterpretation of my statements. Prime95 is one of many tools that have a place in identifying instabilities and identifying instabilities is ultimately the purpose of stress testing. A system passing Prime95 may not be stable, but one that fails Prime95 (in a manner not due to a bug in Prime95...which is easy to check by seeing if the same test passes on any CPU of the same type) certainly has objectively identifiable instabilities.

I'd also be remiss if I didn't point out that using the term "power virus" when referring to stress tests is a misnomer. Such a use that was popularized back in late 2009 when the insufficient cooling on GTX 480s, as well as the overly hot VRM on the Radeon HD 5800/5900 series parts, were experiencing excessive failure rates. FurMark and similar programs became (quite unfairly, IMO) scapegoats for what were essentially the first generation of parts that could not be run to maximum theoretical loads without damaging stock-clocked reference models. Later parts addressed this with various limiters and throttling/boost mechanisms, to maximize performance in games, without having to actually engineer boards and coolers for such peak loads. Only relatively recently have CPUs started to go down this same path. Anyway, 'virus' implies something covert, illicit, or out of user control...stress tests are not these.

Ultimately, any harm that could potentially be caused by demanding stress tests is generally less than that which may be caused by too cavalier an attitude toward stability. Crashes and throttling will generally be ample forewarning of potentially dangerous power or temperature levels, but instability can do damage entirely silently, and if there is any serious labor involved (for business or pleasure), data is quite likely to be worth more than the hardware itself.

Quote: Originally Posted by doyll View Post
Bottom line here is best load test is one user will be using in normal use.
I strongly disagree.

You could easily have a system that has an unacceptably high chance of failing or corrupting a batch encode (say one in ten, for the sake of argument) that still has a very good chance of passing an equally long encode (90%, in this case).

If that system is instead running a few hundred MHz slower and several degrees cooler at the same voltages because one took into account what was required to be stable in more demanding tests, the odds of failing that encode decrease geometrically.

I do a fair bit of video editing and transcoding myself. The time saved by encoding 5% faster is not worth the risk of failing a long encode, or spitting out unusable files, because I used my encoder as the primary stress test for my encoding.

...rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual. -- Thomas Jefferson
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 08:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
I strongly disagree.

You could easily have a system that has an unacceptably high chance of failing or corrupting a batch encode (say one in ten, for the sake of argument) that still has a very good chance of passing an equally long encode (90%, in this case).

If that system is instead running a few hundred MHz slower and several degrees cooler at the same voltages because one took into account what was required to be stable in more demanding tests, the odds of failing that encode decrease geometrically.

I do a fair bit of video editing and transcoding myself. The time saved by encoding 5% faster is not worth the risk of failing a long encode, or spitting out unusable files, because I used my encoder as the primary stress test for my encoding.
Disagree with what? Obviously system must perform error free 100% of the time so whatever test procedure is used has to test system a little above that and still have no error/failures.

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