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post #1 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Why air coolers are better than AIO and CLC

I see many member talking about how AIOs/CLCs cool better than air when the reality is until recently they did not at similar noise levels. Even now they are a little louder when system is at idle because pump and coolant flow make a little noise often louder than idling fans.

Another point I would like to make is AIOs and CLCs are not the same. CLCs are a sub-group of AIO. AIOs that are not CLCs have copper radiators with threaded fitting on all components and a fill port. They can be surviced and repaired as needed. While still not near as good as most custom loops they are better quality than CLCs. CLCs have aluminum radiators with extremely low flow pump (flowrate is about as much as healthy adult's urine flowrate) all in a hermetically sealed unit with no provisions to service or repair.

When Asetek first patented CLCs and brought them to market they called the LCLC for Low Cost Liquid Cooling. If you were into computer at that time you will remember Corsair H100 reached consumer market before any reviews and had an extremely high / failur rate and lots of RAMs. So many that there were thousands of what they called "refurbished" being sold for over a year. I don't know if they were really all refurbished because many looked brand new. Some of use wonder if Corsair dumped them on the market as "refurbished" to limit warranty is a few months instead of years.

To add to the problem of which is better is the fact most reviews do their testing in case built systems using room ambient air temp taken at beginning and end of test session. Problem with this kind of testing is air temp into cooler and radiator are not the same, and with air coolers every degree different the air temp entering cooler becomes same degree different CPU temp is. Compound this with CLC radiators usually being mounted as intakes and 2x raditator fans adding 2x additional fans to case airflow (most stock cases with stock fans have terrible case airflow) greatly improves case's 1-3x stock fan airflow. So obviously air coolers were giving 3-12c hotter results than CLCs .. not because they didn't cool as well but because they were being handicapped with air 3-12c warmer than CLCs were using. I've notice a few more review sites using open bench testing, and it's helped show the problems.

Add to all of the above that air coolers last almost forever. Some of us are still running 10+ year old coolers like Thermalright Ultra, Ultima, Silver Arrow, IFX14, NH-D14, etc. Admittedly new fans, but often only because we wanted different fans, not because originals died. Only problems we have is finding new mounts for new CPU mount configurations.
But CLCs start degrading the minute they are put into use and start failing almost as soon. Some of the best cooling were gunking up and failing in a few months like original Enermax Liqtech did .. or just failing like original Corsair H100 by Asetek did.

Add to above aswell that when liquid cooling stops working system has no cooling, so cannot be used until cooler is replaced. With air cooling there is only the fan to go bad, and system still cools enough fo use for low load applicastions or any fan can be held on cooler with rubber bands until new fan is in hand. So no (maybe 5 minutes) down time with air coolng while CLC is at least an hour if user has a spare air cooler handy.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base

Last edited by doyll; 07-02-2020 at 04:56 AM.
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post #2 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 05:43 AM
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:v.

I will just point out Corsair H100 had its premiere a fktone amount of years ago and there were like 3 or 4 (H100, EK Predator, Silent Loop, Enermax TR4) AiOs that had issues.

Also, there are lots of folks that run Corsairs 10+ yo AiOs units, so... Bring out your relevant test using a PC case or your own testing graphs or don't try to make a ****storm.
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post #3 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by BroadPwns View Post
:v.

I will just point out Corsair H100 had its premiere a fktone amount of years ago and there were like 3 or 4 (H100, EK Predator, Silent Loop, Enermax TR4) AiOs that had issues.

Also, there are lots of folks that run Corsairs 10+ AiOs units, so... Bring out your relevant test using a PC case or your own testing graphs or don't try to make a ****storm.
Asetek made the H100 and still makes most if not all of Corsair CLCs. Silent Sloop is not a CLC, it's an AIO made by Alphacool, not Asetek, and I don't remember it having any problems. Yes many others have had problems as well.

Not sure what your 10+ is, if it's 10+ years. As I remember H100 was releaed August 2011. In other words there are no H100s' that have been in service 9 years, even if purchased on release day. And most of those (maybe all) had to be replaced. Do you remember how many were being sold world-wide as "refurbished"? And they were some of the very first CLCs marketed. Also, the higher the heat removal, the shorter the life because more heat means faster coolant loss. I think Swiftech was sellling an AIO earlier, but would need to it up to be use.

As for other having problems, yes there have many quite a few. But I can't remember an air cooler ever having similar problems at release or starting to fail after a few month lof use. So there's another good reason to go air cooling instead of CLC. Add onto that the fact air coolers, even new ones are using the same tech as first ones .. and nothing new means no new issues. CLC are constantly be changed and sometimes having issues as we have both pointed out.

As for me doing relavan testing, it's been done and proven many times over by others (as well as myself). But if you want proof of something how about you post data and links you believe prove me wrong and I'll explain the whats' and whys' of what your review sites are / were doing wrong in their test procedure, assuming they publish their procedure.

It's easy to put up charts and graphs making one product look better than another .. not so easy to do accurate cooler testing. Link below to Gamer Nexus has a good explaination the many problems involved in doing accurate testing and how hard it is to resolve them and have even reasonably accurate test results.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3...sts-are-flawed

There are a few that do decent testing. First I found was years ago was TheLab.gr using artfical heat source test station they developed in December 2010 code name Jalapeno.
https://www.thelab.gr/forums/topic/8...omment-1263413
Sadly it's cooler database is no longer on their website. Attachment below is a copy of it taken several years ago.

Anandtech has been using similar for years with simple to understand testing methodolgy.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14621...ooler-review/3

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
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post #4 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:45 AM
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Anything around 150w or less range should be ok for long term use e.g. 5 years, but get into the 250w+ range and I don't think you will get good life out of it.

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post #5 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:48 AM
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post #6 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Owterspace View Post
Anything around 150w or less range should be ok for long term use e.g. 5 years, but get into the 250w+ range and I don't think you will get good life out of it.
I think that's about it.
Many of the failures I know of have been 2-3+ years old on high overclocked CPUs, so most likely a result of coolant loss resulting from high coolant temps.

I'm not saying CLCs and AIOs are total garbage, even though I doubt I will ever use a CLC. I have used AIOs (be quiet! Silent Loop) a couple of times and if service every 12-18 months they work well enough. I wish Alphacool had a better consumer support record as I like the idea of their Eisbaer lineup, except quick connects while functional do look ugly.

Phanteks Owners Club Ways to Better Cooling
i7 980 @ 3.55GHz =PH-TC14PE w/2x TY-143 fans =Crucial Ballistix 3x4GB =GA-X58A-UD5 =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =Enermax Modu84+ =Define R2 w/3x TY-140 case intake fans; all PWM controlled by CPU fan socketPhanteks Enthoo Primo MoBo Rampage III Extreme CPUi7 980X
@ 4.0GHz =R1 Ultimate w/2x TY-143 fans =Dominator GT 6x2GB =Rampage III Extreme =ASUS GTX580 DirectCU II =TX850 =Enthoo Primo w/ custom castor base
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post #7 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:23 AM
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I agree. Looking back to when I got my first CLC and I thought it was the best. I gave my old D14 to a friend because I was confident I wouldn't need it again. About a year later is when I noticed my temps werent as good as they were before, and I was back down to the performance of my old D14. It wasn't long after that I had to start lowering clocks and voltage. I used it for about 4 years before giving it to my brother for his 7700K. I still use the CPU I had back then as my daily driver for now until my new Z77 board arrives in the mail, then it gets delegated back to the kids. I should note that I was not using the stock fans on my CLC, but 120x38s. And it spend the majority of its life coping with my X5690. Its nice not having a Minion with a rattle can in my case anymore.

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post #8 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:25 AM
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I'm just gonna poor myself a cup of coffee and wait for the fun to start.....


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post #9 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:44 AM
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Lol..

I mean if you don’t have the heat load they are okish for a little while. I’ve seen guys who are still running what I was running, the only thing I can think of is they didn’t like linpack as much I did, and they were not running a 6 core dinosaur well above it’s stock voltage range.

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post #10 of 524 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 09:06 AM
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IMHO I'd burn the money for heat before I'd ever buy an AIO or CLC. That's just me

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