Site Speed Assessment: Your thoughts - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

View Poll Results: Site Performance, what is it like for you ?
It is fine, same speed as other sites I use 25 22.52%
It could be better, slower than other sites I use ALL THE TIME 28 25.23%
It could be better, slower than other sites I use SOME OF THE TIME 27 24.32%
Terrible, much slower than other sites I use. 31 27.93%
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post #21 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 07:51 PM
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Hi,
Not sure how else to state the issue
Every thread has a last reply link lol click a few into a new tab and see what happens with sig rigs not expanding and avatars not appearing
Not to mention you'd probably not be able to edit your post after submit and could also make uploading not work with the paper clip too.
Most all functionality is borked besides medial typing and submitting.

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post #22 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-09-2018, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Not sure how else to state the issue
Every thread has a last reply link lol click a few into a new tab and see what happens with sig rigs not expanding and avatars not appearing
Not to mention you'd probably not be able to edit your post after submit and could also make uploading not work with the paper clip too.
Most all functionality is borked besides medial typing and submitting.
Please can you provide a bug report with screenshots of your actions here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/1779...it-bug-report/

I can then get the dev team to look into this further as I am unable to get the same issues you are facing, someone else may be able to test and replicate.

Thanks,
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post #23 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 09:33 AM
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There is a more general problem with the site, aside from geographical factors playing a role sometimes, it's the design of the site itself:


1. Homepage:

a) The homepage's latest discussions and news columns now have to fetch the latest 20 items, whereas Huddler and the later version of vBulletin (before the 2011 transition to Huddler) only fetched 16 for each column. That's 8 more links that have to be fetched. We could perfectly go back to 16 as it's reasonable;

b) Related to the above: there is one more problem that most people don't get to see, but that gets loaded by the browser (I have tested it by disabling the Internet connection before zooming out the homepage and all the information had already been loaded). Each one of those lines in those columns is actually loading a bunch of extra information that only people with very large screens and resolutions or zoomed out will see. The page loading time will however be the same for everybody. Now, question to other members, how many of you have actually seen how the homepage actually loads (try zooming out on your browser or look here):

Click image for larger version

Name:	Extra information that slows down the homepage but that people don't see - 11 Aug 2018.png
Views:	7
Size:	196.8 KB
ID:	211620

c) Still on the homepage: the sub-forum icons. They are sort of a good sounding idea, but they don't really accomplish much at the end of the day, except to add a bunch of icons to the loading. We didn't have them on Huddler nor on vBulletin before that. In their place it was flames, which I assume takes less time since it's always either the normal flame or the faded one that is loaded for each sub-forum. The same logic for the monitor icon on the currently active users and the graph icon on the statistics;


d) The usual vBulletin cruft at the bottom, complete with icons, none of which is necessary because they're all self-explanatory: Forum Contains New Posts / Forum Contains No New Posts / Forum is Closed for Posting. They weren't even there on the original vBulletin version of the site, pre-2011.


2. Member area, subscribed threads: get rid of the smileys column and while you're at it, get rid of the possibility to add them to post headers on the thread pages too.


3. Threads: people's avatars in threads are way too big in file size, the original files uploaded are being used as you can see PNG's and JPEGs in varying sizes in there and not a single file type converted to always the same image size. The big ones are all simply being scaled on the fly. You can see how big some of them are by zooming in the page and seeing them get bigger and bigger without loss of quality, but the pudding proof is if you save them or simply select "View Image Info" (in Firefox) or equivalent on your bowser's context menu to see their filesizes and see the magnitude of the problem.


Take the following thread as an example. Some of the avatars are quite small in size, but others aren't: https://www.overclock.net/forum/226-...ou-know-2.html

Hunched: 197kB
Majin SSJ Eric: a whopping 464kB
Mine is 176kB
spinFX: 155kB
aweir: 93kB
JackCY:228kB


That's 1313kB from loading 6 members' avatars on that page. This may have dire consequences in people's evaluation of page loading speed and worst of all, makes the feeling variable depending on the exact thread they are viewing, rendering geographical locations just a potentially misleading factor in the equation. Not to mention that this will hurt people's data caps.

Having that in mind I set out to look at other threads, looking for comparable or even worse cases. I didn't have to go far:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/379-...-naming-2.html

kot0005: 132kB
coupe: 1.2 MB, yes, megabyte
umeng2002: 316kB
guttheslayer: 236kB
cooljaguar: 111kB

So, if before you were loading 1313 kB from 6 member's avatars alone, on this particular page you're practically loading 2 MB from only 5 members.


You thought it couldn't get any worse? It does and a lot. Next (and final) example:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/225-...s-doors-2.html

Rayleyne (animated GIF): 609kB
Anateus (avatar of Gabe Newell dressed in Half-Life suit): 7.1 MB. No, seriously, seven point one megabytes and it's a static image.
Aemonn (animated GIF): 951kB
Exothermic1982 (animated GIF): another whopping 1.4 MB

So, now from these four members alone you're loading a whopping 10 Megabytes (11.6 MB for the whole of the page's images).

I think I've made the point that many areas of the site's infrastructure are simply not optimized at all.


4. There is also quite a bit of superfluous stuff in the advanced editor page, but since that editor is presumably on its way out (good riddance), it's not worth going over it right now.

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post #24 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Some fair points made. I have wanted to go through the permissions system for a while to reconfigure Avatar Allowances Etc. With that in mind I have disabled Gifs for avatars, not only in order to optimise loading but due to the fact many do not come through well after the on the fly compression system. Ultimately Gifs are also fairly distracting in my humble opinion and I think we can leave these behind

Image sizes for Avatars are at 140x140 (They have been for a little while after this was deemed a good balance when the membership were consulted upon initial migration)
Profile Picture sizes are at 240x240

Avatar Max File Size:250KB
Profile Picture Max File Size: 250KB

We will see how we fair with that one for a while, we can revisit this again in the future.

Note that avatars uploaded prior to these changes will still remain until the user changes it. We wont forcibly change these.

The whole homepage area for the moment will remain as it is, this will get reviewed in time.

The smilies section, again this may well disappear naturally when we bring a new editor on board.


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post #25 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 12:00 PM
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So, just to recap and make it clear, the avatar image sizes up until now had no file size limit except for the general picture upload limit which is 9.54 MB, right? And now you enforced a limit of 250 KB, correct?

What about avatar picture sizes? As of right now 140x140 still hasn't been enforced, even visually, which makes for an inconsistent post and thread layout. The system could convert the bigger dimension to 140 pixels, keeping the aspect ratio, thus making all pictures use no more than the 140x140 allotted square. Why isn't this done?

Also, why doesn't the system convert all avatar pictures to .jpg and downscales them in picture and file size to the limits you mentioned, while keeping the aspect ratio, all the while leaving the originally uploaded picture in the member's picture gallery? That would work out well for everybody, the site would become faster and members wouldn't be losing their original files.

You say "We will see how we fair with that one for a while, we can revisit this again in the future.", but if nothing of the above gets done it will be a very long time until anything good happens, as you'll just have to wait until each individual member decides to change his / her avatar picture, including the animated GIFs.

Speaking of which, disabling GIFs is a debatable idea, I doubt it will go well with some people. At the end of the day it's all about taste, some are good, others are hideous and distracting and as far as I know those were already asked to be removed anyway (especially the ones that can cause seizures), just as unprofessional static images are removed. The main problem is file size, and in the examples I found, the worst offender, and by a lot, was a static image. A 140x140 animated GIF can perfectly stay under 250 KB.

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post #26 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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There were inconsistent permissions regarding the size and file size of the images across some usergroups meaning some would be within the aforementioned confines, others would not depending on usergroup the user belonged too. We should see an improvement there.

I will also be looking into further image compression ratios tomorrow to see if we can make savings in that respect.

The Post Icons as of tomorrow will also be removed from the site, the standard emoticons however will stay as per all prior iterations of OCN.

I also have changed some of the sites internal caching options which im hoping will help, but improvements on that due to the nature of caching will not be immediate.

The front page may get small revisions made to it depending on an assessment I will make further down the line. For now the front page is functioning and serves its purpose irrespective of user preference. With that in mind I am focusing on other site updates and fixes first that have a higher priority. I will cycle back to this later and get further feedback then 🙂

Gifs, possibly debatable for sure but for now they are disabled so far as avatars and profile pics go. You can still use them on posts.

More to come tomorrow as im out of the office now lol


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post #27 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-14-2018, 03:45 AM
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Personally speaking, i think it's all that bloat in the background; there are times when the site drags and task manager shows network at '0mbps'.
(have had this on a 1950X, a 2700X and on a 6900K, all with good OCs and equally OCed RAM sticks, 960Pro NVMEs on them all; sincerely doubt it's my hardware. Won't even question the OS, as this only happens here)

Also, the more i stay logged in, the more the site will drag; and because this could (i suppose? lol) be a lot of things, to explain what i do here; i don't read build logs or threads that usually have a lot of pics in them, ie heavy on traffic stuff; in fact, most of my time i just refresh the cooling section, see any new posts on either 'Air' or 'Water'. Even that falls under the above; refresh it now, go do a house chore, come back in 30 mins and refresh, slower; 45 mins later, even slower; and so on. Posting a reply, in any a post, is also slower than it was under the previous 'regime'; it loads and it loads and it loads before it refreshes the page with my post included. Sometimes, logging in takes an eternity too, others it doesn't. This is unrelated to whether i have other tabs open in the explorer or not, have tried it both ways.
Ever since the transition, my general experience with this site is.. far from a steady one, so couldn't possibly be more specific, apologies.

This on both Firefox 52.5.3 and IE11 (which yes, lol, i still use)

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post #28 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-14-2018, 08:06 AM
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Thinking about this again, there is no reason to have the same file size limit for both avatar and profile picture, even more so considering that they have different image size limits (see quote below). 250 kB limit for the avatar max file size is too high, given that it's limited to 140x140. No .jpg file will use that much space.

I was wondering how my avatar (listed in one of the previous posts) used 175 kB, but it's explained by the fact that it's a PNG and it's 306x306. I must have saved it like that when editing the original one, which is not a square picture. The original one, which is a .jpg, uses a mere 27 kB. As I mentioned before, this also means that the system doesn't convert avatar uploads to a single file type.

I've just done some experiments downsizing large, multi megabyte pictures to .jpg at 140x140 and they top out at less than 35 kB, so there is no reason for the limit to be 250 kB, you can easily set the limit at 50 kB and that will save a lot of bytes per page. People can potentially save up to 2 MB per page at the default of 10 posts per page, up to a whopping 20 MB at 100 posts per page.

In case you want to allow .PNGs too so as to not have to convert them on your side, you can still set the limit at a lower 75 kB, that should cover all of them.


Quote:
Image sizes for Avatars are at 140x140 (They have been for a little while after this was deemed a good balance when the membership were consulted upon initial migration)
Profile Picture sizes are at 240x240

Avatar Max File Size:250KB
Profile Picture Max File Size: 250KB

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post #29 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-14-2018, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post
Thinking about this again, there is no reason to have the same file size limit for both avatar and profile picture, even more so considering that they have different image size limits (see quote below). 250 kB limit for the avatar max file size is too high, given that it's limited to 140x140. No .jpg file will use that much space.

I was wondering how my avatar (listed in one of the previous posts) used 175 kB, but it's explained by the fact that it's a PNG and it's 306x306. I must have saved it like that when editing the original one, which is not a square picture. The original one, which is a .jpg, uses a mere 27 kB. As I mentioned before, this also means that the system doesn't convert avatar uploads to a single file type.

I've just done some experiments downsizing large, multi megabyte pictures to .jpg at 140x140 and they top out at less than 35 kB, so there is no reason for the limit to be 250 kB, you can easily set the limit at 50 kB and that will save a lot of bytes per page. People can potentially save up to 2 MB per page at the default of 10 posts per page, up to a whopping 20 MB at 100 posts per page.

In case you want to allow .PNGs too so as to not have to convert them on your side, you can still set the limit at a lower 75 kB, that should cover all of them.
Glad you bought that up, after sleeping on it I realised there was no need for such a large file size limit for a 140x140 image. I will make adjustments to this sizing later today, on the cautious side I will likely set it between 75 -100 KB and go from there. *EDIT*, Will set it to 75Kb

As for the Post Icons, these are now disabled site wide, no need for them and something we can leave in the early 2000's.

Image quality has been altered as these were at 95% when being compressed, this has been dropped to 75%, a decent balance between quality and file size.



Last edited by ENTERPRISE; 08-14-2018 at 09:54 AM.
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post #30 of 135 (permalink) Old 08-14-2018, 10:41 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ENTERPRISE View Post
Glad you bought that up, after sleeping on it I realised there was no need for such a large file size limit for a 140x140 image. I will make adjustments to this sizing later today, on the cautious side I will likely set it between 75 -100 KB and go from there. *EDIT*, Will set it to 75Kb

As for the Post Icons, these are now disabled site wide, no need for them and something we can leave in the early 2000's.

Image quality has been altered as these were at 95% when being compressed, this has been dropped to 75%, a decent balance between quality and file size.

If they are being compressed does that mean that avatars pictures uploaded as PNG's will now be converted to .jpg's? If that is the case and considering the 75 kB file size limit, you can let them stay at 95% quality easily, they'll never reach 75 kB at 140x140, you'll be lucky if they get to half of that.

Good to know about the post icons being gone, but are they really gone site wide? There is still a column for them and they are still there in the subscriptions table.

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