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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I picked up some acetone to use as interface liquid, It is labeled as 30% acetone, no clue what the rest is. Anyone know if it will survive Dice temperatures or should it be distilled?

Thanks.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 08:21 PM
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You want 100% acetone. Like this stuff http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-Acetone-GAC18/100141096

Per the datasheet (http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/de/de9ddec4-0039-4df3-92fc-683bcfdfe6e8.pdf) it is Acetone {2-Propanone} 100.0 %

Pure acetone freezes at -95C. DICE is about -80C, so depending on the other 70% you have, which I guess is water, I would not use.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks, that's what I though too.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 02:52 PM
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Anyone used Diethyl Ether ?

I'm not sure of the science, but according to this page: when you combine DICE & Ether, the result is -100C.

http://www.larkinweb.co.uk/science/freezing_bath_temperatures.html
I copied this chart from the page above



That chart could also be useful for someone competing against the 'cold bug'?

Anyone has anyone ever used Diethyl Ether with DICE, how did you get on?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nrpeyton View Post

Anyone used Diethyl Ether ?

I'm not sure of the science, but according to this page: when you combine DICE & Ether, the result is -100C.

That chart could also be useful for someone competing against the 'cold bug'?

Anyone has anyone ever used Diethyl Ether with DICE, how did you get on?

Interesting. Based on my chemistry experience, there are a few ways that could work, However, diethyl ether is not something I would recommend using, it is considerably more dangerous than acetone, reacting with air and light and combined with being denser than air, explodes very easily, all of this is accelerated by having a boiling point barely above room temperature which makes it a pain to store.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 05:38 AM
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Interesting. Based on my chemistry experience, there are a few ways that could work, However, diethyl ether is not something I would recommend using, it is considerably more dangerous than acetone, reacting with air and light and combined with being denser than air, explodes very easily, all of this is accelerated by having a boiling point barely above room temperature which makes it a pain to store.

hmm interesting, I can grab 1 L of it on Ebay for as little as £30 (I think that's about 35 in U.S dollars)...

I'd have to be smoking a cigorette or create a *spark* to ignite it though?

Been seriously considering grabbing it when my new POT arrives (for first time DICE experiment).

Can't seem to find a local LN2 supplier near Edinburgh (in Scotland/U.K).

Due to lack of LN2 available where I live, this could make a big difference to me, as it'll truely enable me to get to -100c ;-)

I hear what you're saying though, I would obviously need to be vigilant. And apply a bit common sense.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nrpeyton View Post

hmm interesting, I can grab 1 L of it on Ebay for as little as £30 (I think that's about 35 in U.S dollars)...

I'd have to be smoking a cigorette or create a *spark* to ignite it though?

Been seriously considering grabbing it when my new POT arrives (for first time DICE experiment).

Can't seem to find a local LN2 supplier near Edinburgh (in Scotland/U.K).

Due to lack of LN2 available where I live, this could make a big difference to me, as it'll truely enable me to get to -100c ;-)

I hear what you're saying though, I would obviously need to be vigilant. And apply a bit common sense.

The more I think about it the less feasible it sounds, Dice sublimates (turns to gas) at -80C ~ish and I believe that this -100C value refers to Dice that is colder than -100C being added to the diethyl ether and the temperature being brought up to that level. The Dice you can buy is found at its sublimation point, it stays at that temperature because of the ENORMOUS amount of energy (Not exaggerating almost 600KJ per Kg) required to sublimate it, due to this I don't think -100C will come around. Basically, is it possible? Yes but not in a dice pot cooling a "Hot" Component. Secondly on the explosive part, keep in mind this liquid also forms peroxides when it reacts with air, but more concerning than that is its density, it won't just evaporate and drift off, it sinks to the ground and stays there, at -80C the evaporation will be minimal, however, something as simple as the relay in a power supply can provide enough energy to spark it. I am curious though so give it a shot if you want but with good aeration and a properly insulated motherboard (because it is heavier than air because it will condensate on the board) Common sense is always recomended thumb.gif

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 03:04 PM
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The more I think about it the less feasible it sounds, Dice sublimates (turns to gas) at -80C ~ish and I believe that this -100C value refers to Dice that is colder than -100C being added to the diethyl ether and the temperature being brought up to that level. The Dice you can buy is found at its sublimation point, it stays at that temperature because of the ENORMOUS amount of energy (Not exaggerating almost 600KJ per Kg) required to sublimate it, due to this I don't think -100C will come around. Basically, is it possible? Yes but not in a dice pot cooling a "Hot" Component. Secondly on the explosive part, keep in mind this liquid also forms peroxides when it reacts with air, but more concerning than that is its density, it won't just evaporate and drift off, it sinks to the ground and stays there, at -80C the evaporation will be minimal, however, something as simple as the relay in a power supply can provide enough energy to spark it. I am curious though so give it a shot if you want but with good aeration and a properly insulated motherboard (because it is heavier than air because it will condensate on the board) Common sense is always recomended thumb.gif

Okay, I am a little worried now.. rep+1 for the information.

I might just try with Acetone first like everyone else :-) At least until I can maybe do some experiments outside to test how stable the two are together.. but maybe that is something for the future :-)
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I am a little worried now.. rep+1 for the information.

I might just try with Acetone first like everyone else :-) At least until I can maybe do some experiments outside to test how stable the two are together.. but maybe that is something for the future :-)

Acetone is a lot less harmful and relatively speaking a lot less harder to ignite (still really easy though) acetone is still denser than air, but, a relay spark won't be setting it off as it's initiation energy (Energy to get a flame started) is quite high. As far as acetone is concerned, I believe that it can't ignite at -80C, hence a lot safer than Diethyl Ether. When working with organic compounds (Pretty much anything with Carbon Hydrogen and Oxygen in its formula) keep in mind that they can damage plastics or dissolve them, try dropping a Styrofoam cup in acetone(It will turn to a slime plastic like substance), although this will only readily happen from direct acetone contact so don't spill it on the insulation, damage from acetone gas is negligible (IDK why you would but just in case). Finally don't spill it in hydrogen peroxide as it forms a highly unstable explosive. I think that's all for acetone safety. thumb.gif
If you have any questions please ask

TL;DR : Acetone is quite safe.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrpeyton View Post

Can't seem to find a local LN2 supplier near Edinburgh (in Scotland/U.K).

Due to lack of LN2 available where I live, this could make a big difference to me, as it'll truely enable me to get to -100c ;-)

Try Mansfield Cryogenics. thumb.gif

Ah, they still haven't expanded their service to Scotland yet. frown.gif

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