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Never been convinced by Linux? Here is a challenge for you.

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post #21 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 10:31 PM
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lol I don't hear people taking the challenge! All I hear is people justifying their captivity in the windows cycle!

I've slowly been learning Linux over the years. I can certainly understand people needing certain things only windows can provide (not because Linux is bad, but rather because support is all on windows.)

The only time I have to mess with configuration is if I'm doing something fancy (I guess mouse side buttons happen to be "fancy" for Linux =\\ ). Ethernet is installed by default. Sound is installed by default. Video drivers can be installed with one click (at least in Suse; in Sabayon it was installed by default). And in distros such as Suse and Debian-based (Debian, *buntu) and I think even Fedora, software installation is a matter of one click. That's how I've been getting around in Suse for about a week now. I haven't had to compile anything by source yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
What distro of linux would you suggest for people starting off?
I'd recommend either:

Ubuntu (very easy to use), specifically Mint. Mint is set up out of the box the way most people would like their computer. For the short time I used it, it didn't do some stupid things like other distros did. And it came with Compiz-fusion by default which, imo, blows aero out of the water.

Sabayon was another distro that was fairly easy to use, at least out of the box. I didn't spend too much time on it, but it came with lots of pre-installed stuff. This was particularly useful to me because I'm kinda Linux-dumb. I did have kind of a hard time upgrading stuff that did come pre-installed, though. However, I'm not familiar with Portage anyway (the Sabayon and Gentoo package manager). Sabayon is based on Gentoo which is supposed to be one of the more powerful Linux distros; someone with better knowledge would know how to update stuff better than I would.

Now currently, I'm using Suse. I'm finding it to be very easy. I set a couple sites up as repositories for my package manager, and now it's a matter of typing in a description of the program I want to get it, click the check box, and hitting "Accept." Installing nVidia drivers was as easy as googling "suse nvidia drivers," clicking on the site, then clicking on the "One-click Install" button.

Suse uses its own control center called "Yast." Some people don't like it (I don't know why), but I find it to be really helpful.

Anyway, I hope someone decides to take up the challenge and has fun with it. Good luck.

PS: Can't wait for paulito to come in and say how anyone in here disagreeing with his windows fanaticism is either stupid or a fanboy

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post #22 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 10:43 PM
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this is how i think each OS pairs up with a users computer skill:

Mac OSX - Beginner
Windows XP\\Vista - Intermediate
Linux Ubuntu - Expert

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post #23 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aden Florian View Post
this is how i think each OS pairs up with a users computer skill:

Mac OSX - Beginner
Windows XPVista - Intermediate
Linux Ubuntu - Expert
I'll agree with that, but I'd put Ubuntu in intermediate, and maybe Gentoo, Slack, or FreeBSD at expert

Although some people at the higher level prefer using the lower level for simplicity's sake (I prefer low-maintenance for desktop usage.)

"I just talk the way I see things... If that's offensive to you... I'm sorry; you're a loser." - Michael Savage

"But you would be amazed by how many people think that the only reason to have a computer is to play games, and that playing games is all that anyone with a computer does." - dangerousHobo
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post #24 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 11:25 PM
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I've gained some experience with linux when I'd configure them for DNS / dedicated gaming servers for large scale lans. I've become very disappointed with it when it comes to my laptop. It's HP's fault but the fact that I have so many issues with APIC basically prevents me from installing any version without customizing everything to work right. Even then it's been a 3 week struggle to get audio/wireless to work right. I'm not anti-linux at all (i'm frustrated because I can't get it to work) but when you have an Open Source OS that requires extensive setup customization how can you expect it to be mainstream. Hardware is always changing and as a result the hardware support is lacking. Vista had it's issues but as far as setup goes it was the easiest...and sadly the most reliable I have seen so far.

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post #25 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 11:38 PM
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Ubuntu, at least its current release, is easilly intermediate. I would switch to it 24/7 except for two reasons. The first is obviously gaming. The second is that Ubunutu does not like my wireless network. I have tried all of the wireless USB NICs I have but have not gotten the network to work correctly. With my current setup I can reach the internet but after a while, usualy within 30 mins, the connection and the network manager crap out and it becomes impossible to reconnect without a reboot. I have yet to have any other issues with Ubuntu though and it works fantastic with the internet connected. So a little bit better support, or an upgrade to a better supported NIC on my end, and I will likely be a lifer.

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post #26 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 11:55 PM
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Here's my question to you: Can you run AviSynth on Linux? Note that many of the plugins are DLLs with optimized assembly code.

When asking for help: state the goal, not the step.

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post #27 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-24-2007, 02:56 AM
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Well I installed Ubuntu and I am having trouble install simple programs...like Winrar... I read some of the commands but its not working... Maybe Windows made me lazy but is there a easier way to install a exe with out having to do the terminal coding?

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post #28 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-24-2007, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sistum Id View Post
Well I installed Ubuntu and I am having trouble install simple programs...like Winrar... I read some of the commands but its not working... Maybe Windows made me lazy but is there a easier way to install a exe with out having to do the terminal coding?
OK, your first problem is you are still thinking windows software. Open up Synaptic Package Manager (System -> Admin -> Synaptic Package Manager) and then do a search for 'unrar' - then install the unrar package (Not unrar-free is the open source version, but lacks some features, so you probably want unrar.) then just open any rared files with 'Archive Manager' - which should be the default when you try and open an archive. You don't need WinRar, WinRar is windows software, '.exe's are Windows software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma View Post
Here's my question to you: Can you run AviSynth on Linux? Note that many of the plugins are DLLs with optimized assembly code.
http://avisynth.org/AviSynth30 <- Apparently version 3.0 has an official Linux port, so that appears to be sorted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirmie View Post
Ubuntu, at least its current release, is easilly intermediate. I would switch to it 24/7 except for two reasons. The first is obviously gaming. The second is that Ubunutu does not like my wireless network. I have tried all of the wireless USB NICs I have but have not gotten the network to work correctly. With my current setup I can reach the internet but after a while, usualy within 30 mins, the connection and the network manager crap out and it becomes impossible to reconnect without a reboot. I have yet to have any other issues with Ubuntu though and it works fantastic with the internet connected. So a little bit better support, or an upgrade to a better supported NIC on my end, and I will likely be a lifer.
Wireless networks are a pain, unfortunately, the developers don't release drivers or specs, so they have to be reverse-engineered, which takes time. My suggestion is to use Wireless Access points - see the link in my sig. They are the best way to set up any wireless network, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman331 View Post
I've gained some experience with linux when I'd configure them for DNS / dedicated gaming servers for large scale lans. I've become very disappointed with it when it comes to my laptop. It's HP's fault but the fact that I have so many issues with APIC basically prevents me from installing any version without customizing everything to work right. Even then it's been a 3 week struggle to get audio/wireless to work right. I'm not anti-linux at all (i'm frustrated because I can't get it to work) but when you have an Open Source OS that requires extensive setup customization how can you expect it to be mainstream. Hardware is always changing and as a result the hardware support is lacking. Vista had it's issues but as far as setup goes it was the easiest...and sadly the most reliable I have seen so far.
That is a shame, but hopefully just a problem with specific hardware. Unfortunately, again, there is little that can be done, when linux turns mainstream, the hardware developers will be forced to release drivers/specs, but until then, there is little that can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blupupher View Post
I think it is a P III 8-900 mhz with 256mb ram and a 9 gig HD.
I need to figure out what is wrong with it (I think IDE1 is bad) so it won't boot.
If I can get it working, I may just give it a try (Ubuntu would be the best to try?).

That is part of the problem too, too many different versions of Linux.
Lude brings up a good point also, user interface is much easier (and idiot proof) with Windows. My daughter figured out the basics of Windows @ age 3. Just poing and click, no typing needed. Linux, from my little experience is much more difficult.
There are a lot of Versions of Linux, because it gives you the choice. Linux is not a hard operating system to use - it is just different. A friend of mine who ran a magnet over a hard drive to try to fix it (yeah, I know) runs Linux happily. It is not hard, it just takes a week or so of getting used to. Now-a-days, Linux (well, at least Ubuntu) is damned easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
What distro of linux would you suggest for people starting off?
Ubuntu - it's the one that is the easiest at the moment. I'd suggest vanilla Ubuntu over any of the other Ubuntu based distros - if it is more mainstream, there are likely to be less problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lude View Post
I had far less errors, bugs, etc in Linux versus XP. HOWEVER, i have had far less errors running Vista than Linux or XP. Linux is fine and all, and i would use it if i could at least run some of the software i needed. Not just games, but including games. I know there are plenty of free open source alternatives, but rarely do they match what can be run on Windows. Windows is extremely user friendly, Linux, until recently, has not been. I have noticed it has been getting more user friendly, and by that i mean using the Command Line/Terminal less. The average person doesnt want to have to look up on the internet how to do simple things in their OS. I have used Linux on and off plenty, and at first it is a pain in the ass to get running how i want with all the software and abilities installed (media players, mp3 support, etc). Then somethings screws up somehow. On numerous occasions something happened (kernal update i think) that caused me to not be able to boot into Linux anymore. Also, i got about as much "Program not responding" in Linux as i did XP.

The main things holding Linux back: Software (including games), and user friendliness. The latter is getting better, but once that improves even more and more people start to use Linux, then the software will slowly begin to come.

As far as a free OS goes, Linux is great.

That is my take on Linux.
Name some software that you need under Linux? Because everything (except games, I admit) I use I generally find better than the Windows counterpart. User friendliness is now impeccable - the only problem is people are used to windows. Linux is actually easier, people just dislike change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spice003 View Post
if somebody showed me linux and how to use it back when i started using pcs, i would be using linux now. But relearning the whole OS is hard, especially all of the commands. I mean u need to know the command just to install something, its just to complicated for me right now. They also need more driver support for simple stuff like Logitech mice for back and forward buttons, instead u have to configure files. I am not saying linux sucks cause i would gladly use it since its free but its too time consuming to learn it. But i got say with new releases coming out, i might switch in a year or two.
It really is not that hard. Take my challenge and try it - You will be surprised, it is very easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sistum Id View Post
I downloaded Ubuntu the other day but havent got around to trying it out. I came across the Vista (Aero) Vs Ubuntu (Beryl) few days ago and I was very fascinated with Beryl. So I went and downloaded a copy of Ubuntu but havent got the time.

Why cant Linux run todays games? Whats the problem?

I made the jump to Vista month or so ago when I saw that Ultimate had this thing called Dreamscene (yes am a sucker for eyecandy). Is it possible for Ubuntu to have something like Dreamscene? (looped motion desktop)
Linux can't run today's games because they are written for Windows - it's like having Petrol and Diesel cars, you can't run one on the other. It's all down to the developers. Some games have native Linux ports (Unreal Tournament) - and that is great, most outperform the Windows clients, and some will run under WINE (A windows compatibility layer - not an Emulator!). Try running Ubuntu as my challenge goes is my suggestion, and yes, Compiz Fuzion is the eye-candy for the desktop, and blows dreamscene out of the water. Try it. (In Ubuntu, just go to System -> Appearance -> Effects and then turn them on.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choggs396 View Post
If I have to boot into Windows for games, I'll be in Windows for most of the time I'm using my computer anyway. The rest? Emails, OCN, and typing papers for school using MS Word. Why would I switch to Linux for that?

No offense, and I'm not trying to flame, but Vista works great for what I do and the majority of what others do. So I think I'll stick with a single OS that does everything I need.
You just said one of my points 'Windows works, why bother?' - It is a hard one to counter. Living in the trees as monkeys worked, but would you not rather be in today's age? Having your CPU at default clock speed works, but would you not rather overclock? It is worth doing, for general usage, Linux is a lot better. Try the challenge, then come back.

Sorry if I missed anything, or accidentally dodged something, feel free to say if you still have a problem or feel I have missed something. There was a lot to write.

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post #29 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-24-2007, 09:53 AM
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Everyone saying, "I use Windows, I'm happy with it, why switch?" isn't thinking far ahead.

I used to be in that camp. Then, I built my first computer, thought it was pretty cool, and built 2 more. So... should I pay $900 to buy three full licenses for Vista? I could buy them for $100 each and just never change my motherboard. That would work too. But guess what. I'll probably be modding my computer as time goes on. That means new motherboard, that means a new version of Windows, that means more $$$ I have to spend on my OS.

The reason that they only charge $100 or so for the OEM version is that MS estimates the average user will buy it 3 times before their next version comes out. Well, that's an oversimplification- they are also looking at theft and piracy issues and adding those costs in, but basically, they figure you'll buy it three times. Ouch... But now, you younger kids, you have advantages here. You can get educational versions of Windows for cheap. I got my version of Windows 2000 for $20, IIRC, through my university. Now, I'm a grown up and don't have access to that. You younger kids can also use your parents' disks. Then, if MS comes knocking on your door, your parents say, "We didn't know what little Johnny was doing!" and you say, "I didn't know it was wrong..." and shed a little crocodile tear and you settle for $100 or some chump change (which your parents will pay) and go happily on your way (but let's be realistic, we all know you'll never get caught or hassled even, so why worry at all? Just keep ripping off the man).

Why worry? why bother? Because eventually, you will grow up and realize that you need the new release (for me, it's Vista...) You will realize you can't get it for free, or ethically that won't sit well with you. You will face having to shell out for the product that you used to get for free and you will be hooked. Kind of like pushing drugs... 2000 is free for you because you're in college. But when you're Jonesing for XP or Vista, we're going to charge you... and then we've got you.

Going cold turkey to Linux was a little difficult for me, but deep down I'm a bit of a computer geek, so I enjoyed it. I'm now 98% off of windows at home and I can borrow my gf's windows laptop for my windows needs (just paying one bill that won't work with firefox or konqueror and converting files to mp3- something that is easy with most other distros). And after all this, I never have to pay for software again. Those of you running Windows are probably either young enough that your parents pay for stuff, new enough to computers that Windows is subsidizing you to get you hooked (that lasts until about the age of 20-25 or so), are willing to spend another $100 (on top of the cost of the graphics card) to play kick-ass video games, or are buying boxed computers from Dell or Gateway.

And hey, if it's free or cheap, I can't blame you for using it. I would use it too if it were free. Heck, it's probably even worth $25 or so. But that's about all I'd pay for it. I can't buy it for that price, so I'm using Linux. Someday, you probably will too.

Put this in your sig if you are afraid I will kick your butt if you don't.
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post #30 of 1718 (permalink) Old 12-24-2007, 12:13 PM
 
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If I didn't have Wi-Fi i'd probably have a debian install on here... Or a gentoo one.
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