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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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cpu/mobo voltage problem

MSI Z390 MAG tomahawk
i7 9700k
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corsair vengance 3200mzh 16gb

I'm going to try to condense this down somewhat since it is a long story but here goes. I was running into some issues with app crashes on my system and also wanted to lower operating temp of my cpu so tried undervolting the cpu. This resulted in me discovering the system is unstable at factory defaults. Occt finds errors if run for 4-6 hours, and if I run Intel CPU diagnostic on a loop overnight it eventually flags the IMC as having failed. I tried known good and totally different RAM set in system and the same issue occurs. I also tried updating bios and clearing cmos and still problem persists. I then tested this system with turbo boost disabled and RAM slightly underclocked and the system passed diags. At this point I figured there must be an issue with voltage going to the cpu or RAM or a combination of both. I decided to turn xmp on to see what voltages it changed in the bios and I then disabled the xmp and manually set those voltages to slightly higher values then they are at default. (RAM, IO, SA) I retested this system and the system passed. At this point I figured there had to be an issue with the cpu or systemboard so I replaced the cpu and I'm still having the same issue. I'm now starting to wonder if the default settings in the bios are faulty or if it is actually the mobo hardware that is faulty. I intend to call msi support Monday to ask about a possible RMA, but in the meantime want to know what are safe voltages for IO and SA? By safe I mean, wont degrade or damage my cpu or void the warranty. I'm kind of hoping someone will tell me I can manually input safe values for these items or maybe other settings I have not thought of tweaking to solve my problem as I have heard horror stories about mobo RMAs in general so any help I could get short of that would be great.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 10:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by nicholas70 View Post
MSI Z390 MAG tomahawk
i7 9700k
rtx 2060
hxi 850w
corsair vengance 3200mzh 16gb

I'm going to try to condense this down somewhat since it is a long story but here goes. I was running into some issues with app crashes on my system and also wanted to lower operating temp of my cpu so tried undervolting the cpu. This resulted in me discovering the system is unstable at factory defaults. Occt finds errors if run for 4-6 hours, and if I run Intel CPU diagnostic on a loop overnight it eventually flags the IMC as having failed. I tried known good and totally different RAM set in system and the same issue occurs. I also tried updating bios and clearing cmos and still problem persists. I then tested this system with turbo boost disabled and RAM slightly underclocked and the system passed diags. At this point I figured there must be an issue with voltage going to the cpu or RAM or a combination of both. I decided to turn xmp on to see what voltages it changed in the bios and I then disabled the xmp and manually set those voltages to slightly higher values then they are at default. (RAM, IO, SA) I retested this system and the system passed. At this point I figured there had to be an issue with the cpu or systemboard so I replaced the cpu and I'm still having the same issue. I'm now starting to wonder if the default settings in the bios are faulty or if it is actually the mobo hardware that is faulty. I intend to call msi support Monday to ask about a possible RMA, but in the meantime want to know what are safe voltages for IO and SA? By safe I mean, wont degrade or damage my cpu or void the warranty. I'm kind of hoping someone will tell me I can manually input safe values for these items or maybe other settings I have not thought of tweaking to solve my problem as I have heard horror stories about mobo RMAs in general so any help I could get short of that would be great.

Thanks.
First of all what are your temps? Ambient and CPU idle/load. Hotter the system the more voltage it takes to be stable. Auto voltages are a ballpark... every cpu is different. Maximize your cooling and increase the IMC voltage and retest.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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My temps under heavy load peak around 75c(32c avg idle), or at least this is during the most recent intel diagnostic tests I ran since trying the new cpu, which kinda sucks because the previous chip ran 4-5c cooler doing the same thing and I've tried reseating the heatsink and fan(noctua NH-d14) several times but thermals didn't budge. I also did reapply thermal paste each time using the pea on center of IHS method. I will add however that I didn't know that higher heat meant more voltage required to be stable just thought more heat meant faster degradation. I do know that this motherboard pushes absurd amounts of voltage to the cpu by default. Up to 1.31 volts under heavy load on stock settings with no OC settings applied which to me seems a bit bonkers, and it was when trying to address that problem that I discovered this one. Also what's the max safe IO/IMC voltage for 24/7 use with the cpu? I've done research on the internet regarding this and everyone seems to have different opinions and the Intel spec sheets don't really address the question of max safe IO voltage but the document implies that it is quite low perhaps 1.04.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 11:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by nicholas70 View Post
My temps under heavy load peak around 75c(32c avg idle), or at least this is during the most recent intel diagnostic tests I ran since trying the new cpu, which kinda sucks because the previous chip ran 4-5c cooler doing the same thing and I've tried reseating the heatsink and fan(noctua NH-d14) several times but thermals didn't budge. I also did reapply thermal paste each time using the pea on center of IHS method. I will add however that I didn't know that higher heat meant more voltage required to be stable just thought more heat meant faster degradation. I do know that this motherboard pushes absurd amounts of voltage to the cpu by default. Up to 1.31 volts under heavy load on stock settings with no OC settings applied which to me seems a bit bonkers, and it was when trying to address that problem that I discovered this one. Also what's the max safe IO/IMC voltage for 24/7 use with the cpu? I've done research on the internet regarding this and everyone seems to have different opinions and the Intel spec sheets don't really address the question of max safe IO voltage but the document implies that it is quite low perhaps 1.04.
Take a look over here at the 9700K overclocking thread.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-in...-question.html

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Lots of information to digest in that thread, but after reading it the 1.31 auto vcore that systemboard pushes doesn't seem quite as extreme as it did, but I'm sure the cores themselves should be stable on less. I just wish I hadn't needlessly RMA'd my previous chip which had better thermals. At this point I guess I'll have to slightly increase VCCSA voltage and RAM voltage and test. I'll save the IO voltage for last, and probably check with MSI about RMA but probably won't do that unless they have advance RMA. What do you think the odds are that two cpus/RAM sets would be unstable at stock settings on a systemboard that isn't faulty?
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 07:08 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by nicholas70 View Post
Lots of information to digest in that thread, but after reading it the 1.31 auto vcore that systemboard pushes doesn't seem quite as extreme as it did, but I'm sure the cores themselves should be stable on less. I just wish I hadn't needlessly RMA'd my previous chip which had better thermals. At this point I guess I'll have to slightly increase VCCSA voltage and RAM voltage and test. I'll save the IO voltage for last, and probably check with MSI about RMA but probably won't do that unless they have advance RMA. What do you think the odds are that two cpus/RAM sets would be unstable at stock settings on a systemboard that isn't faulty?
You have to understand many 390 boards auto overclock over stock Intel turbo settings, so there is no standard voltages.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea I kind of found out about the stealth OC the hard way when I turned on enhanced turbo without fully understanding what it did, but right now it is set to auto vs enabled which I think means it only turns on if XMP is running. At least it doesn't seem to be kicking on right now because before when it was enabled vcore was jumping as high as 1.39 and temps were getting into the 80s. I'm really kind of amazed Intel is allowing the motherboard mfgs do some of this stealth OC stuff because I'm sure it results in RMAs that otherwise wouldn't be happening for a number of reasons.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 06:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by nicholas70 View Post
Yea I kind of found out about the stealth OC the hard way when I turned on enhanced turbo without fully understanding what it did, but right now it is set to auto vs enabled which I think means it only turns on if XMP is running. At least it doesn't seem to be kicking on right now because before when it was enabled vcore was jumping as high as 1.39 and temps were getting into the 80s. I'm really kind of amazed Intel is allowing the motherboard mfgs do some of this stealth OC stuff because I'm sure it results in RMAs that otherwise wouldn't be happening for a number of reasons.
Yeah it's been somewhat of an issue for some. XMP also results in some voltage increases apparently.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Well it looks like the problem was the RAM voltage, because when I slightly upped the RAM voltage I was able to run the Intel daigs all night without error. I'm going to run it again tonight to reconfirm, but I'm starting to feel stupid for RMAing a cpu over a minor issue involving the factory settings on the mobo. I'm also a little disappointed in MSI tech support as they did say it could be a memory problem, but you'd think they'd have run into this before and have known this to be a possible fix for the issue.
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