Overclock.net banner

I got old Intel instead of Ryzen 3000

9K views 89 replies 45 participants last post by  crazycrave 
#1 ·
Was planning on getting Ryzen 3000, but then I saw that 9900k is still king in games, Zen 2 while clearly superior in things like Cinebench, is not superior across the board, so that made me hesitate and didn't make the purchase the day it came out.
Instead I saw some rich asian student selling his used x99 kit to get Ryzen 3000, and I decided to get that instead.
It was a Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550.

These are prices for CPU+mobo+32GB RAM only
All the new builds here have +13% HST included because I'm Canadian.
"IPC" here has no scientific proof, I basically looked at reviews and "eyeballed" them, they're estimates.
All the Ryzen build use memory that are ~$50 more expensive, because they are more sensitive to RAM performance.
I don't like mainstream, because they are mainstream.
I don't like dual channel, because ram on either side of the CPU looks more symmetrical and more high-end.
I don't like PGA sockets because it's a plastic piece, and that looks worse than the all-metal LGA socket.

Sure there will be some combination of cheap mobo+2700x or 3700x that will end up roughly the same price, but I don't think the extra performance is worth the other deficiencies.

Interesting observation here is that Ryzen 3000 isn't that good for mainstream, a 3800x build overall costs about the same as a 9900k build. But the 3900x is much cheaper and faster than the 9820x, that's great for AMD, and I hope Intel will drop their HEDT prices to compete better.

So that's why I decided to go with 5960x, so much cheaper. Forgot to include Threadripper here, but it'll be about same price as 3900x for same core count, lower performance but without the PGA and mainstream drawbacks. I don't think that would've made sense because I'm mostly just gaming here.

When it comes to games, what performance you need is heavily dependent on what performance do the consoles have. Next-gen consoles will have 8c zen2 but at like 3Ghz or something, cuz it'll have to be cheap and power efficient. With the 5960x you can easily power through the IPC difference when it's clocked that low. So chances are good that I won't be CPU limited in any of the next gen games. Of course, Unity engine games with god awful optimization will still be problematic.

Another reason I decided to not go all-out on Ryzen 3000 is how strong Intel's SunnyCove is in terms of IPC, even though their fab is still ****, we can tell it's very strong because 10nm SunnyCove cores are 4.1Ghz are beating 9th gen at 4.5-4.7 Ghz, I believe that's a bigger lead than Zen2. So chances are good that when Intel sorts out their ****ty fabs, they'll be at least on par with Zen3 in terms of IPC. So I believe that will be a better time to buy, whether I end up buying Zen3 or Intel 10th gen, at the very least there will be more competition, lower prices and better products. Right now AMD is kind of sandbagging Intel with Zen2, and charging relatively high prices.

Also, I very much enjoyed the manual tuning with Intel processor with tones of headroom, and a true flagship mobo. With Ryzen 3000 it's basically plug and play, not much you can do at all.
 

Attachments

See less See more
3
#76 ·
This was one of the reasons why I actually went AMD. Don't get me wrong, there may be security issues that my hit AMD in the future (hopefully not), but how the last security breach was handled and how it impacted most Intel based systems, it made it quite easy for me to make the swap.

I have a 3800x, and while I like the 4.4ghz boost, I am not too comfortable with the 1.48-1.5v that runs through it. Yes, I know, AMD has stated it is perfectly safe. I just don't like that high voltage regardless.

While my Intel based system with an 8700k was great to overclock and great in games, I did BSOD somewhat often than normal. Some games would crash after install and I couldn't figure out why, especially after a fresh Windows install.

Just last night I attempted to install one of those games, and it worked on my AMD system. Keep in mind, the only components I swapped was the chip and mobo, all other components are the same! So far I am liking the chip!
 
#5 ·
You might regret this!
 
#7 ·
So maybe he can use the Intel 2nd hand Value aand sell the CPU+MB on ebay for a profit and then buy 3700X+AM4 :).
it's just that this platform is too old to invest in this days IMO, the Zen 2 has ~20% IPC advantage, even the 3700X is in a different leage then this CPU.
 
#8 ·
I dont see PGA as a catch. Infact I see it as a pro. I have bent the pins of many an AMD cpu and been able to bend the pins back. I have bent many LGA socket motherboards and thrown them in the bin. I dont know about you. But being able to save the CPU after bending a pin sounds like a massive advantage. "But I pull out the CPU when I remove the cooler" I hear you say. Well firstly instead of just trying to yank off your cooler just twist it back and forth gently and it will eventually come free. And if you do happen to pull it out the socket any way well it doesnt damage anything.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: Hueristic
#21 ·
PGA is just an inferior socket design to LGA all around. LGA is overall simpler, more reliable, scales well to larger sizes and has better electrical & mechanical characteristics. I've never had to straighten a pin on my LGA cpu's so I don't know how having a chip with pins is a good thing? Also PGA sockets themselves have pins that can bend or break too, they're just under a plastic cover instead.

I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.
I don't really get it either, the 5960X is a good cpu, a bit old yes, but still plenty powerful. It not like it's going to be lacking for playing games, it'll loose like 5-10fps but when your doing over 100fps already does it really matter?
 
#10 · (Edited)
since Guru3d only reviewed 3700X/3900X.
P.S: even the R5 3600 is faster then 5960X at stock in R20, and even with max OC @4.7Ghz-the 5960X only gets ~4200pts in R20.

Sry OP for this, but maybe you should think to make a good profit from the parts you got for cheap and sell them while they have good value?
 
#12 ·
What it think is they want to make the other Ryzens shine. The op is canadian and prices in their country is ridiculously high. I think op made a wise decison.
 
#11 · (Edited)
But wouldn't it have been cheaper still to get a secondhand 1700 and have roughly the same perf with the benefit of a motherboard that might take a much faster 12 or 16 core chip later?

I also can't understand what the 9900k being best in gaming has to do with buying a chip that's slower than both CL and Zen 2 in gaming, especially one that sits closer to Zen 1 gaming performance :headscrat.

As long as you're happy with your choice and what it does for you that's all that matters, just saying I don't think I could come to the same conclusion based on the choices/info.
I just think there are better options for old and secondhand.
 
#14 ·
While you are trying very hard to justify your purchase I don't think anyone should care. If you do nothing with your PC other than game on a clean install, with nothing running in the background, then Intel will serve you wonderfully.

So, enjoy your purchase and be happy to have a blue chip in your PC rather than a red one.

Edit: personally I thank AMD for giving us defective server chips, I highly appreciate the ECC support, which is why I have bought AMD for the past decade and will continue buying AMD.
 
#15 ·
It's nice to see OCN's AMD evangelists get rather upset that you didn't purchase AMD - and then for them to completely disregard your reasoning and research.


You have to keep in mind something like my 9900K + Aorus Master + 32GB DDR4 3800mhz cost me around CAD 1900 including ON's 13% tax (Jan 2019). So CAD 750 for that is 253% cheaper.



And honestly, 750 CAD for that CPU, motherboard and RAM is a good deal. Sure you're losing out of performance but that price to performance is pretty neat. I'm guessing the OP is going to use this to tide him over until 10nm Intel or Zen refresh which is more compelling of an upgrade for him/her. Plus we don't know what CPU/etc. they came from.





What GPU are you paring with that out of interest?


Additionally: Anandtech article of 5960x v 2700x: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1317?vs=2110
 
#18 ·
For that price he, indeed, got a good deal as that RAM would cost me 2/3 of that 550 he spent. As I said, I hope he's happy with his purchase and enjoys it for years to come.
 
#17 ·
Hi,
Looking at 6900 chips 8 core running at 800.us new 5960 and board/ ram for that price and works you chose well even a used 5960 would sell pretty fast and near probably what you paid for the entire system :thumb:
 
#25 ·
#27 ·
How well does Nickelback overclock?
 
#29 ·
5960x is still a strong cpu. That's what I upgraded from. Your build looks nice.
 
#31 ·
Sorry to break it to you but "Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550." is hardly worth $550. Ryzen has beaten it long ago in performance and value. The only thing having any value in that is the RAM but even that now should not be as overpriced as it was 1-2 years ago. So you pretty much paid same money for a used old power hungry Intel system that you could have spent on a brand new with warranty AMD system consuming fraction of the power.

If you wanted that extra 1-2% fps performance in low quality games at high fps you should have gotten that overpriced 9900K that costs $550 alone.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Sorry to break it to you but "Rampage V Extreme, 5960x with 32GB Samsung 3000Mhz CL15, all for $550." is hardly worth $550.
Why?



Ryzen has beaten it long ago in performance and value. The only thing having any value in that is the RAM but even that now should not be as overpriced as it was 1-2 years ago.
If you wanted that extra 1-2% fps performance in low quality games at high fps you should have gotten that overpriced 9900K that costs $550 alone.
To restate what has been said before: Even if you were to go with a 3700X, X570 and 32GB DDR4 you'd still be looking at CAD1100-1300. Considering he stated this is to tide him over until the next generation is more tempting to go for, I don't see your point other than to be abrasive and convince people that your opinion is the correct one while disregarding any circumstances.


Additionally, when he does resell it - it will lose less value than a new system would.



So you pretty much paid same money for a used old power hungry Intel system that you could have spent on a brand new with warranty AMD system consuming fraction of the power.
Citation required. Please find a Ryzen 3700X system for CAD750 incl tax. Also, the power draw thing is very moot, saving a few cents on a power bill should not be an influencing factor which may result in purchasing a potentially worse product.




Still don't understand the point of this thread, you're just justifying your purchase of old intel processor, i don't really care why its your money but this thread is pointless and should be lock!
Enforcing rules because you don't agree with someone's opinion is extremely dangerous line to tread.






Nice oranges(4core cpu and 1440p) to apples(i7 8c/16t 4k) comparison. I am not going to straw man with you, plenty of reviews and data out there go against your opinion. Your rebuttal implies nothing about 4k gaming.



Well, your words were literally:
Except this whole theory falls apart @ gaming 4k. You could literally find many old intel cpu thats cost less than 100$ usd and game @ 4k60 while pretty much having identical performance.
Ergo my comparison. Even a 2500k used will cost more than $100 so I assumed you were thinking of a CPU even worse than that.
 
#32 ·
Still don't understand the point of this thread, you're just justifying your purchase of old intel processor, i don't really care why its your money but this thread is pointless and should be lock!
 
#38 ·
It's very sad that another thread went down south so quickly.


Can't we all take things a bit more tolerantly?


1. Yes, the OP did purchase an old system. But for pretty good penny, and it's well worth the relatively minor investment.
2. From the "intonation" of his posts I gather that OP has something against AMD's lineup. But I accept that and move along. - Other members see it too, some maybe choose to turn a blind eye, or honestly don't percieve it.

3. The 5960x is still nowhere near the point in time to be completely dismissed as obsolete. Even for gaming.


To be honest, if I were him, I'd make the same choice, although for different reasons (price/performance). Not because I dislike PGA or fancy symmetrical memory alignment - which I can understand; I know people who really appreciate such looks. Not because AMD offers "reject low grade server chips", and not because the 9900k exists.


Jeez...
 
#44 ·
This thread is ridiculous from the very opening post.
 
#47 ·
Hi,
Boom nice build :thumb:
 
#50 ·
Keeping in mind the OP's prices are in CAD, it's not a bad deal.

A similar new setup, Intel or AMD, with the same budget, would not be faster.

I don't like mainstream, because they are mainstream.
I don't like dual channel, because ram on either side of the CPU looks more symmetrical and more high-end.
I don't like PGA sockets because it's a plastic piece, and that looks worse than the all-metal LGA socket.
Fortunately you didn't have to pay too much to cater to your aesthetic sensibilities.

Intels older CPUs are losing ground thanks to security flaws.
Only readily apparent in very I/O heavy tasks.

I dont see PGA as a catch. Infact I see it as a pro. I have bent the pins of many an AMD cpu and been able to bend the pins back. I have bent many LGA socket motherboards and thrown them in the bin. I dont know about you. But being able to save the CPU after bending a pin sounds like a massive advantage. "But I pull out the CPU when I remove the cooler" I hear you say. Well firstly instead of just trying to yank off your cooler just twist it back and forth gently and it will eventually come free. And if you do happen to pull it out the socket any way well it doesnt damage anything.
In most cases I'd rather the board be the more fragile component because it's usually cheaper.

Regardless, I've fixed even more bent LGA socket pins than I have PGA CPU pins.

I'm just confused as to why so many people care what CPU OP went for. $550 CAD (?) for that hardware is pretty damn good. Even if it's $550 USD, it's still a good deal. I would have probably done the same thing TBH.
It wasn't a bad deal, but I think some of the reasoning behind the decision is nuts.

Don't think so, my 2500k @ 5ghz really struggled at 1440p with my 1080 Ti.
A 5GHz 2500K is worse in many modern gaming scenarios than plenty of Westmeres...just doesn't have enough cores.

A Haswell-E is not going to be the limiting factor in most high-res/detail gaming scenarios.
 
#51 ·
Keeping in mind the OP's prices are in CAD, it's not a bad deal.

A similar new setup, Intel or AMD, with the same budget, would not be faster.
^this. Op, being canadian really did good with the cost of his build.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: Synoxia
#53 ·
I just bought a 3700x and would love to score a cheap 5970x to play with and hopefully not blow up.

Since they're so dated somebody should donate me one!

Computering!

Nice deal op. Not like he'll lose much on resale if he decides he needs more power later...
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top