[ExtremeTech] Building GPUs Out of Entire Wafers Could Turbocharge Performance, Efficiency - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[ExtremeTech] Building GPUs Out of Entire Wafers Could Turbocharge Performance, Efficiency

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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[ExtremeTech] Building GPUs Out of Entire Wafers Could Turbocharge Performance, Efficiency

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The overarching finding is that a wafer-scale GPU would scale vastly better than any alternative configuration. The researchers modeled both a 24 GPM (GPU Module) and 40 GPM configuration. Configurations above 40 GPUs weren’t feasible due to the difficulty of utilizing an entire 300mm wafer for a single GPU (while we refer to this as wafer-scale processing, the team suggests 40 GPUs rather than a theoretical 100 GPUs per wafer is currently a practical maximum). Performance across a range of tests was 2.97x faster than the equivalent MCM configuration on average for a 24-GPM configuration and 5.2x faster for a 40-GPM configuration.
Source.




Maybe this is what we need to make mGPU a reality again, if this can be good enough to treat multiple GPUs as a single one, that is. If they can come up with an interconnect that scales over ~half the wafer (since the article suggests the whole wafer is infeasible, but then they could put another GPU on the other half), you can cut out the pieces that don't work and salvage probably just as much as before. Not to mention that building smaller GPUs will then be a matter of just cutting it smaller.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 07:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Kimir View Post
Turbocharge? what if I want to supercharge my GPU instead. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
It's a good idea until you need to cut a hole in the front of your case to fit it. The turbocharged GPU is more space friendly 😉


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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 08:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
It's a good idea until you need to cut a hole in the front of your case to fit it. The turbocharged GPU is more space friendly 😉
Obviously those beasts would be enterprise/research/server units and require everything be built around them, but once the tech is developed to get that to work well, trickling down to consumer it's a way to get chiplets into consumer GPU's without all the issues AMD is having using chiplets on GPU's.

Would be super cost effective for gpu makers too only having to design one chip and simply chop the wafer into sections of 1 chip - entry level, 2 chips -low end mainstream, 4 chips - high end mainstream 8 chips - flagship sections which would themselves all be cut down versions of the 24 or 40 chip wafers listed in the thread.

I think it's bloody brilliant.


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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DNMock View Post
Obviously those beasts would be enterprise/research/server units and require everything be built around them, but once the tech is developed to get that to work well, trickling down to consumer it's a way to get chiplets into consumer GPU's without all the issues AMD is having using chiplets on GPU's.

Would be super cost effective for gpu makers too only having to design one chip and simply chop the wafer into sections of 1 chip - entry level, 2 chips -low end mainstream, 4 chips - high end mainstream 8 chips - flagship sections which would themselves all be cut down versions of the 24 or 40 chip wafers listed in the thread.

I think it's bloody brilliant.
What issues is AMD having with applying chiplets to GPUs?

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
What issues is AMD having with applying chiplets to GPUs?
Software side. The software (games) still recognizes each chiplet as a different gpu. Using the same Ryzen approach they are unable to homogenize it so that it is recognized by software as a single unit. That's why Navi is monolithic instead of using chiplets.


Gotta backtrack now a bit. 8 200mm chiplets would be way too huge.

Here is scaled up image of about what 6 chiplets at 200mm^2 would look compared to a Volta Tesla GV100 and lol, it's stupid huge.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by DNMock View Post
Software side. The software (games) still recognizes each chiplet as a different gpu. Using the same Ryzen approach they are unable to homogenize it so that it is recognized by software as a single unit. That's why Navi is monolithic instead of using chiplets.


Gotta backtrack now a bit. 8 200mm chiplets would be way too huge.

Here is scaled up image of about what 6 chiplets at 200mm^2 would look compared to a Volta Tesla GV100 and lol, it's stupid huge.

You don't need to backtrack, after all your baseline GPU block was entry level, not a ~200mm² block, which is usually in the mainstream/mid-range (GTX 1060 / RX 480).

You take the 1050 Ti, which is 132 mm² or go even lower, the 1030 is 74 mm². Ideally, something in between, at ~100mm². If you put 8 together you get a chip around the size of the Titan V, but since you have freedom to scale and cut from wherever you want on the wafer, it would be much cheaper to get to market.




Edit: This approach needs a chiplet design though, but it's easy: you make wafers filled with memory controllers + video decode/encode block + video output block + PCIe interface.


Edit 2: And as a bonus, GPU makers can do like AMD is doing with Zen 2, make the chips that contain the memory controllers + video decode/encode block + video output block + PCIe interface on an older node, for even lower costs and better yields.

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Last edited by tpi2007; 02-21-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 12:02 PM
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Agreed the chiplet design makes a lot of sense for this type of application. Any ideas on when we'll see a GPU using this design for sale?


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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 03:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DNMock View Post
Software side. The software (games) still recognizes each chiplet as a different gpu. Using the same Ryzen approach they are unable to homogenize it so that it is recognized by software as a single unit. That's why Navi is monolithic instead of using chiplets.


Gotta backtrack now a bit. 8 200mm chiplets would be way too huge.

Here is scaled up image of about what 6 chiplets at 200mm^2 would look compared to a Volta Tesla GV100 and lol, it's stupid huge.

So in other words this as a concept has the same problem. Nice story.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 04:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post
So in other words this as a concept has the same problem. Nice story.
The problem is there isn't enough incentive to force the issue yet with software developers. If the article is to be believed, a 300% to 500% performance increase is big enough to prompt a big push from AMD/Nvidia/Intel to make it happen.


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