[TechSpot] Thousands of Amazon workers are listening to your Alexa conversations - Page 10 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

[TechSpot] Thousands of Amazon workers are listening to your Alexa conversations

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 108 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 08:35 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
TranquilTempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,702
Rep: 78 (Unique: 63)
Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
Generally speaking, there is no real evidence that they are.
Public companies are legally bound to work in their shareholders' best interests. Turning down money because it would be unethical is rarely in that playbook. Turning down money because it would be illegal is more often, but not always effective.
Quote:



This is bad reasoning. Anytime you ask something unfalsifiable in a debate, you know you have a weak point. In an actual debate, this would be a very poor tactic and you would probably lose your argument. It's also just bad reasoning. There are always bad guys out there in the world, yet statistically speaking everything gets more peaceful over time. If we bring math into this there is strong evidence to suggest that whatever issues there are related to data mining would have an even smaller negative impact in the future. Just saying "how do you know it wont get worse?" with no reasoning as to why it should, is just a bad argument. It's the kind of argument you get a lot from these.. sky is falling down types.
We're arguing about what precautions we should take to mitigate known and unknown risks. It's not "sky is falling" it's "we're sliding down a mountain, maybe we should grab onto something". Hell, with these voice recognition systems in place, if a government agency wants to spy on you, they don't have to break into your house and plant bugs, they just send Amazon, Google, or Apple a national security letter.
Quote:


It violates international laws and there would be a trial overseen by the UN. Guilty parties go to jail. Or maybe war? Or maybe the companies just say no because they know they could never operate in the US or any other allied nation if they did anything like that and got caught. People go to jail over mishandling private data all the time.
Lets take a look at China, Google already went back on a promise to not censor their search results, and were hiding data collection practices from their own privacy team.
Quote:


If you're running for office and you have some kind of criminal record that you're trying to hid, I have no sympathy. I think society has already decided that our leaders should be held to higher standards. Also, ya know... it would be illegal and if you did that to your competitor you would just go to jail. If I put a hidden camera in your house and then show the footage, it doesn't become OK just because you're running for office. It would be a very obvious crime.
Talking about audio, not video. The crime isn't in releasing recordings, but recording people that don't know about it(different laws depending on state. It would shock me if they haven't broken some states' wiretapping laws "unintentionally".) This kind of stuff is buried in the terms of service nobody reads. Doesn't even have to be anything breaking the law, maybe you had a conversation ten years ago about whether people with downs syndrome should be allowed to reproduce.
Quote:

And I've got a bridge to sell you if you think that have people at their company working on identifying individuals and building up personal info about them. Could they figure out how to reverse engineer the data mining process and start tying names to anonymous data points, sure... but people who build billion dollar tech companies don't do it to make relatively small amounts of profit off data mining, and they don't risk going to jail over what would just be a distraction from their main profits anyway.

Why oh why doesn't all this data targeting happen all the time and how can anyone think it won't be the Skynet death of us all in the future? Well because its illegal to do those things and historically speaking, good wins over evil. If that changes we are all screwed anyway so it's a non-issue.
Um how exactly are they supposed to target ads to you if they don't know who you are? And good doesn't win over evil, the winner just gets to write the rules.
Quote:

Just dont buy an Echo if this really bothers you that much.
Was given an echo once, re-gifted it to someone that already used them.

TranquilTempest is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 108 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 01:24 PM
Old to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,060
Rep: 119 (Unique: 103)
Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
Instead of saying that data collection has been used to target innocent people/civilians all these times that people don't know about, just prove it. Link some kind of proof, and not an article that talks about the proof without presenting it, the actual proof. I would be very interested to know about it if this has actually happened.
Quote:
According to the documents, the NSA and its British counterpart, GCHQ, are using the small tracking files or "cookies" that advertising networks place on computers to identify people browsing the Internet. The intelligence agencies have found particular use for a part of a Google-specific tracking mechanism known as the “PREF” cookie. These cookies typically don't contain personal information, such as someone's name or e-mail address, but they do contain numeric codes that enable Web sites to uniquely identify a person's browser.

In addition to tracking Web visits, this cookie allows NSA to single out an individual's communications among the sea of Internet data in order to send out software that can hack that person's computer. The slides say the cookies are used to "enable remote exploitation," although the specific attacks used by the NSA against targets are not addressed in these documents.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...?noredirect=on

I know, I know you'll say that's not proof because it doesn't actually say it in writting that they have used that to target individuals but if it did you would probably call it fake news or something. Like another poster here said it's like you're asking for a signed confession.

If all this stuff exists, you really think it's for poops and giggles and it's NEVER been used against someone... Lol.

You know in science they use this concept to prove theories. They deduce that if the environment for something to exist does exist and that all the condition for X thing to happen are ripe for it to happen, it therefore must happen even if they can't see X thing actually happen.

Quote: Originally Posted by looniam View Post
are you serious? you demand a ridicules amount of proof, practically a signed confession with three sources and yet go on a fantastical rant of conjecture. one laughable point is the U.N. doing anything.
Lol this.

You know in either side of this debate, nobody actually has malicious intent. Here in the U.S. anyway all this clandestine espionage metadata gathering isn't malicious in intent, they do it because they want to help protect the country. The problem is the way in which they go about this, there's two sides really. There's those that believe the infringement on privacy is a necessary evil to help secure the modern world and in reality it does help to a certain extent and has stopped threats. Then there's those like myself and many here that believe that it's an infringement on personal rights (which it is) and would rather live in a slightly more dangerous world but with more freedoms. It's become apparent here that many of the supporters of the metadata collection are the "good government" types that believe in just world theory. Unfortunately my life experience has taught me that the latter isn't true and bad guys win all the time.

Anyway that's enough for me, I've already broke my cardinal rule of internet'ing. Don't engage in poo flinging contests, thoughtful debate yes but senseless poo flinging contests of people yelling over each other, forget that I'll go do something that actually betters myself. There's no point trying to "convert" anyone, we live in the information age; the evidence is out there so take your pick.

362436
(15 items)
CPU
AMD Ryzen 5 1600
Motherboard
Asus Prime X370-A AMD Ryzen AM4 DDR4
GPU
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 950
RAM
2x Corsair Valueselect 8GB 288 Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 @ 2133
Hard Drive
Corsair Force LS 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC SSD
Optical Drive
Lite-On 24X SATA DVD/RW Optical Drive
Power Supply
Corsair RM550x 550W 80 Plus Gold
Cooling
Noctua NH-L9A-AM4 Low-Profile
Case
Antec NSK4100 Steel ATX Mid Tower
Operating System
Mint 18.2 x64
Monitor
HP 24" LCD/LED 1920x1080
Keyboard
IBM PC-AT
Mouse
Logitech G5
Audio
Sennheiser HD650
Audio
Asus Essence STX II
▲ hide details ▲


xJumper is offline  
post #93 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 08:20 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
PhotonFanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,878
Rep: 19 (Unique: 18)
Quote: Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post
Oh please.

Nobody is going to ruin your life by spoofing your voiceprint. This isn't a James Bond movie.
Agreed. We're coming to the point, that if "they" did try to pull that kind of bull*****, then it could be easily dismissed as created or fabricated. It goes both ways, this technology that helps them also hurts them. You could just as easily say that you've never said that in your life, and that this file being played back was created. These days that's just as plausible as you being the one that said it. Or if not, very soon it will be just as plausible. So much so that these recordings will pretty much inadmissible just like a lie detector test. Who would've thought, that all this video and audio surveliance, would lead to it's own demise and the extinction of it's own use case. Give it 10 years and I can make a video of you doing anything I want. Scary? Not really. It'll be common knowledge that videos are frequently faked. Just like "that's photoshop!!" is now.

Yeah you might have to go through the courts but the odds against that type of evidence working against you, aren't good. More likely it would work against them since if you requested that it be examined for fraud, the judge is likely to rule in your favor since they were caught trying to falsify evidence to the court. Bad news for them, they might end up in jail now. So much more likely is that they just won't try it. If you're concerned about some dystopian gestapo stuff where they just say you did it and won't give you any kind of fair court proceedings, then they really don't need any video evidence or audio to do that to you. They're just going to do it, no fancy stuff needed.

And if you are going to say personal **** in front of a spy device, don't. Don't have that stuff in your house, and take a look at your router for anything sending anything out and shut it down.

"Executing execution.exe"
Bang for the buck
(12 items)
CPU
3570k @ 4.6Ghz @1.35v
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z77x UD3H
GPU
evga GTX 970 SSC
RAM
16Gb Gskill Ripjaws 2133Mhz @ 9-11-10-28
Hard Drive
Samsung Evo 850
Power Supply
Silverstone 900 watt
Cooling
Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme
Case
Silverstone Raven (1st edition)
Operating System
Windows 10 Spy Delux
Monitor
Xstar 27" PLS 1440p
Keyboard
Wireless ergonomic
Mouse
Logisys Wireless trackball
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by PhotonFanatic; 10-10-2019 at 08:25 PM.
PhotonFanatic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #94 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 08:26 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
skupples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 18,884
Rep: 551 (Unique: 312)
yeaaah.

do some reading on where targeted phishing is at in the corporate world. it's crazy. It's only a matter of time until they'll figure out a way to spoof my old man's voice for the ultimate claims check authorization scam.

If you don't think this is already being used to blackmail folks, and other even more nefarious things, you're hiding under a rock.

maybe not amazon's trackers directly, but if one of those employees decides to go rogue on some sim scams? how're you going to stop them?

R.I.P. Zawarudo, may you OC angels' wings in heaven.
If something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
skupples is offline  
post #95 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 04:32 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
PhotonFanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,878
Rep: 19 (Unique: 18)
Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
yeaaah.

do some reading on where targeted phishing is at in the corporate world. it's crazy. It's only a matter of time until they'll figure out a way to spoof my old man's voice for the ultimate claims check authorization scam.

If you don't think this is already being used to blackmail folks, and other even more nefarious things, you're hiding under a rock.

maybe not amazon's trackers directly, but if one of those employees decides to go rogue on some sim scams? how're you going to stop them?
Well I was mainly referring to the fear of some kind of false charges, and prosecution that people have. Falsified evidence that would lead to some kind of court case where people ended up going to prison. That's a real concern of course, but it looks like we're getting to a point where it just wouldn't be possible anymore. Not with any legitimate court anyway, they'd see right through it.

As for blackmail, that I don't know about. Can you cite any particular cases, or at least how it might go down? Also I'm not familiar with sim scams I guess. People who would have that kind of stuff in their house... I mean the obvious answer is not to have it. Then they're not going to be doing any blackmailing or running any scams. At least, not via those particular listening devices.

If you must have one, I'd wait on MyCroft to catch up if it hasn't already. An open source one that frowns on spying. Then you could have your digital assistant and not have to worry about what Jeff Bezos or the rest want to do with your private conversations. I might get a mycroft eventually.

"Executing execution.exe"
Bang for the buck
(12 items)
CPU
3570k @ 4.6Ghz @1.35v
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z77x UD3H
GPU
evga GTX 970 SSC
RAM
16Gb Gskill Ripjaws 2133Mhz @ 9-11-10-28
Hard Drive
Samsung Evo 850
Power Supply
Silverstone 900 watt
Cooling
Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme
Case
Silverstone Raven (1st edition)
Operating System
Windows 10 Spy Delux
Monitor
Xstar 27" PLS 1440p
Keyboard
Wireless ergonomic
Mouse
Logisys Wireless trackball
▲ hide details ▲
PhotonFanatic is offline  
post #96 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 05:14 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
skupples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 18,884
Rep: 551 (Unique: 312)
falsifying, I think the same people that are at risk now, will continue to be at risk and even more so. Even a poorly constructed fake tape would drastically sway public opinion right now with how the masses appear to be adopting a re-constructing belief structure based on each daily news cycle.


Environmentalists are protesting Charmin for using Virgin trees from the arctic. Imagine a tape of the CEO telling a bunch of arse wiping jokes about the hippies to his board?

that's more deep fake territory though, AGAIN - unless the big tech employee listening in via the numerous top of the line devices in the room decides to go rogue. Hell, I could even see these companies having secret internal divisions of change that use their access to the world to manipulate people's belief structures and opinions. oh wait, that one's already happening

R.I.P. Zawarudo, may you OC angels' wings in heaven.
If something appears too good to be true, it probably is.

Last edited by skupples; 10-11-2019 at 05:21 AM.
skupples is offline  
post #97 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 09:35 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,809
Rep: 22 (Unique: 16)
Quote: Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Like I said, there is always a tradeoff to everything in life. In this instance, I am perfectly willing to trade any alleged privacy concerns in order to have better voice recognition and smarter AI. I (like many) use Google Assistant all the time and am always fascinated with just how well it works, not just in answering simple questions like "What's the weather today?", but in much more natural and complex strings of questions such as "Who was Walter Hagen? ...Where was he born? ...What are the best golf courses there?" I also am impressed by Samsung's Bixby Routines (probably the only one) as it allows you to really automate a ton of activities based on time of day, where you are physically located, altering functions of the phone, etc.

I get it, a lot of you guys don't care one bit about any of this stuff, but I have always been a technology fan and remember watching ST: TNG way back in the day thinking "It would be so amazing to have an AI like the Enterprise's main computer that you could talk to like a real person". Don't look now, but the sci-fy of the 80's and 90's is becoming a reality real quick like these days, with digital assistants, tablets, VR, etc, and I can't get enough of this stuff. But the only way to get there is by training this embryonic technology with as much unique data points as possible so here we are...
I was thinking SciFi too, but more in the way of 1984 and Big Brother -- and I'll bet the PRC is using such tech to spy on its citizens regularly.
8051 is offline  
post #98 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 10:02 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,809
Rep: 22 (Unique: 16)
Quote: Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post
And good doesn't win over evil, the winner just gets to write the rules.
I disagree w/this, I'd rather live in a free society than an Islamic theocracy or Communist state or Nazi Germany or Mussolini's Italy. Fortunately for you, you haven't had to live in a evil, totalitarian state where you can be imprisoned for what you say or write as well as do about the government, religion, "dear leaders" etc.
8051 is offline  
post #99 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 10:12 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,809
Rep: 22 (Unique: 16)
Quote: Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
You guys are certainly free to feel any way you wish about data collection by these big corporations, but I personally still don't see any obvious threats to myself despite my considerable usage of both MS and Google services. I have full telemetry and auto-updates enabled in Win10 (and always have done) and I have used Android exclusively since my first smart phone back in 2010, as well as talk-to-text and Google Assistant. Nothing bad has ever happened due to that history of use and I really don't believe anything ever will. I simply am a complete nobody and am easily lost in the massive mountain of data these companies have collected over the years, as are 99.9% of all the other people who have had their data collected after all.

Now, perhaps something bad does happen to me in the future that would change my position on this issue, and if it does I will admit I was wrong. But to me the extremely tiny chance of that happening is just not enough of a deterrent for me to voluntarily deny myself all of the convenience and functionality that these services provide, so I'll just chance it and see how it goes.

You guys are certainly free to follow your own positions on the matter, but please allow me to do the same....
Once "something bad" happens to you it might very well be too late to do anything about it.
8051 is offline  
post #100 of 108 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 11:58 AM
professional curmudgeon
 
looniam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,679
Rep: 791 (Unique: 451)
well if you idiots watched the last episode of Evil you'd know these things are susceptible to demonic possession.

don't come banging on my crucifix laden front door looking for help after you invited the devil into your house.

Remember the golden rule of statistics: A personal sample size of one is a sufficient basis upon which to draw universal conclusions.
Upload the computer to Dropbox and provide a link to it so others may download it to examine and give advice for repairs.
loon 3.2
(18 items)
CPU
i7-3770K
Motherboard
Asus P8Z77-V Pro
GPU
EVGA 980TI SC+
RAM
16Gb PNY ddr3 1866
Hard Drive
PNY 1311 240Gb
Hard Drive
1 TB Seagate
Hard Drive
3 TB WD Blue
Optical Drive
DVD DVDRW+/-
Power Supply
EVGA SuperNova 750 G2
Cooling
EKWB P280 kit
Cooling
EK-VGA supremacy
Case
Stryker M [hammered and drilled]
Operating System
Win X
Monitor
LG 24MC57HQ-P
Keyboard
Ducky Zero [blues]
Mouse
corsair M65
Audio
SB Recon3D
Audio
Klipsch ProMedia 2.1
▲ hide details ▲


looniam is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off