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[TechSpot] Thousands of Amazon workers are listening to your Alexa conversations

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post #61 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 02:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Now you sound like an exemplar for the Dunning-Kruger effect. If you think the only way personal information about someone can be used against them is in a legal venue, that's flatly naive.

Stalking, harassment, extortion, blackmail, burglary, etc and so forth are real forms of attack that are facilitated by knowledge of the target/victim. It doesn't matter where that knowledge comes from, just who ends up with it and what they choose to do to with it. Maybe you don't think you have any enemies. Maybe you don't think you have anything anyone would find worth taking. Maybe you simply think yourself invulnerable. I don't know you, or who you are, but I do know that there is no one on this planet that privacy does not benefit.



Probably not a pressing issue for most people here, but one hardly needs to be crazy to be concerned about more extreme scenarios like this. People being profiled and persecuted has been, is currently, and likely always be, a risk. Plenty of contemporary Hitler-like figures out there now.
In this hypothetical scenario (since no government has ever used metadata to persecute anyone as far as I know) I question if a rogue government would ever be technologically capable of doing that in the first place without essentially imploding or being taken down fairly quickly. Hard to predict the future, but for now I would have to give it a strong no.

I won't speculate on how the Chinese feel about the Social Credit System because as strange and Orwellian as it seems to us, they seem to like it so far. It's easy to criticize China from the outside but you have to keep in mind, they have the largest population by far. There are obviously some challenges that come with governing so many people that don't apply to any other nation.

That stuff is a pretty far out a separate issue from this topic though. In this case with Amazon, it's really just an interesting collection of first hand accounts of experiences of some of the people who actually have to listen to people talk for the sake of improving the voice recognition software. It's no a surprise that this happens, but it opens the door for another OCN debate about all the further reaching aspects of data collection/digital privacy issues... so now we're talking about Hitler.

Which I guess is fine, I'm down to get crazy and hypothetical.

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post #62 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
It's easy to criticize China from the outside but you have to keep in mind, they have the largest population by far. There are obviously some challenges that come with governing so many people that don't apply to any other nation.
China has the same population as India. And yes, it's surely a challenge to oppress 1.4 billion people.

Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
I'm down to get crazy and hypothetical.
The only thing crazy here is the idea that governments, societies, and individuals do not habitually use data to persecute people. Essentially every targeted crime or injustice is contingent on knowledge providing power over someone.

There is also nothing hypothetical about Chechnya or Brunei persecuting LGBT people to the extent many rightfully fear for their lives and have to flee. There is nothing hypothetical about China's anti-religious policies combined with pervasive surveillance resulting in tens of thousands of minorities falsely being detained as 'terrorists'. There was nothing hypothetical about the Rwandan Genocide being facilitated by everyone's national ID cards listing one's (largely arbitrary) ethnic designation, enabling people to be easily singled out. There is nothing hypothetical about the still-in-living-memory examples of the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, the interment of Japanese Americans during WWII, or McCarthyism.

The lumping of people into convenient groups and then making scapegoats of them, often assisted by the mechanisms of government, isn't even the exception to the rule...it's the status quo.

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post #63 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:44 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
China has the same population as India. And yes, it's surely a challenge to oppress 1.4 billion people.



The only thing crazy here is the idea that governments, societies, and individuals do not habitually use data to persecute people. Essentially every targeted crime or injustice is contingent on knowledge providing power over someone.

There is also nothing hypothetical about Chechnya or Brunei persecuting LGBT people to the extent many rightfully fear for their lives and have to flee. There is nothing hypothetical about China's anti-religious policies combined with pervasive surveillance resulting in tens of thousands of minorities falsely being detained as 'terrorists'. There was nothing hypothetical about the Rwandan Genocide being facilitated by everyone's national ID cards listing one's (largely arbitrary) ethnic designation, enabling people to be easily singled out. There is nothing hypothetical about the still-in-living-memory examples of the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, the interment of Japanese Americans during WWII, or McCarthyism.

The lumping of people into convenient groups and then making scapegoats of them, often assisted by the mechanisms of government, isn't even the exception to the rule...it's the status quo.
I didn't say persecution was hypothetical, I am saying no one has ever been the victim of prejudice persecution based on metadata. That is hypothetical at this point.

And again, not here to debate China. This has nothing to do with China.

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post #64 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
I didn't say persecution was hypothetical, I am saying no one has ever been the victim of prejudice persecution based on metadata. That is hypothetical at this point.

And again, not here to debate China. This has nothing to do with China.
Metadata is a form of data no? Data is abundant these days no matter the source so why make it worse for yourself? Tyranny and persecution are not hypothetical, you are right on that!

The social credit system also includes things obtained from metadata. Has nothing to do with China, why the Chinese are from another world and the people are aliens? Blackmail, very prevalent, also includes things pulled from metadata. Shaming and bullying also includes sources from metadata. Assange/Wikileaks not metadata? Hackers, viruses, spying... Anyone home, hello?

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post #65 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post
Yes, if you are a zombie living within the established globalist matrix you have nothing to worry about, we get it. In Fahrenheit 451 and in Equilibrium, you'd be the one taking the happy pills and assimilating into the hive mind. Congrats.
Oh please, using works if dystopian fiction to make your point is irrelevant. I could just as easily point to Star Trek with its supposedly utopian model of total governmental databases to argue the opposite. Works of fiction are, by their very nature, simply platforms to espouse the agendas of their writers and should not be used as proof of anything....


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post #66 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 12:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post
Metadata is a form of data no?
It is, but the term is misused here. Data is being discussed here, not data about data.

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post #67 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 01:50 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
People with basically conspiracy theory level of thinking
You use the term "conspiracy" as if it has some form of negative connotation. Implying such in that way would only make sense if "conspiracy theory level thinking" was always proven false akin to flat earthers or something. That's a very uneducated and ignorant point of view to take given that many conspiracies have turned out to be true.

All those "tin foil hat" guys you'd find on the arm chair commando forums in the early/mid 00's telling us about Enemy of the State levels of surveillance and secret data centers were all made fun of back then, I know because I was one of the guys making fun of them and they turned out to be mostly right.

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post #68 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:12 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Now you sound like an exemplar for the Dunning-Kruger effect. If you think the only way personal information about someone can be used against them is in a legal venue, that's flatly naive.

Stalking, harassment, extortion, blackmail, burglary, etc and so forth are real forms of attack that are facilitated by knowledge of the target/victim. It doesn't matter where that knowledge comes from, just who ends up with it and what they choose to do to with it. Maybe you don't think you have any enemies. Maybe you don't think you have anything anyone would find worth taking. Maybe you simply think yourself invulnerable. I don't know you, or who you are, but I do know that there is no one on this planet that privacy does not benefit.
I didn't say that the only way personal information can be used against someone is in a legal venue. You're making assumptions. The only one that concerns ME, is using what I said on some accidental recording in court against me. Maybe your life is different from mine and you have to concern yourself with stalkers but it's the popo that concern me.

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post #69 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Oh please, using works if dystopian fiction to make your point is irrelevant. I could just as easily point to Star Trek with its supposedly utopian model of total governmental databases to argue the opposite. Works of fiction are, by their very nature, simply platforms to espouse the agendas of their writers and should not be used as proof of anything....
Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
It is, but the term is misused here. Data is being discussed here, not data about data.

If you kept reading, real world examples were given.

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post #70 of 92 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:22 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post
If you kept reading, real world examples were given.
The actual content of your conversations that are being heard/read and selectively fed to AI in order to improve Alexa is just data. You can get metadata on that, but it's not relevant to the end that is described in the OP.

Also, your if-clauses have no express conditionality between them.

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