[Forbes] SpaceX Launches First Starlink Satellites In Space Internet Battle - Page 4 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Forbes] SpaceX Launches First Starlink Satellites In Space Internet Battle

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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blze001 View Post
My little brother is studying astronomy. They're livid about this, it's gonna severely inhibit ground-based observations.
These satellites will have virtually no impact at all on astronomy. Your little brother has nothing to be livid about.

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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
If it's a wave wouldn't that mean it gets a lot weaker a lot faster? Sorry if thats a dumb question here but I'm picturing a wave traveling though the fiber now and it seems like that would be fast but heavy degradation? IDK this is def over my head at this point but love to learn more about it.
The wave interactions with the electrons have no friction or similar mechanism to absorb energy from the photons. The reason waves damp out quickly in water is because the water heats up as the wave travels through it, even physical waves propagate forever in a super fluid like liquid helium.

Edit:
The ability of a photon to excite this odd combined wave in a material, which can propagate at any speed, is what makes a material transparent to that photon in the first place. Matter it really weird.

Last edited by Asmodian; 05-30-2019 at 01:26 PM.
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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Matter it really weird.
You can say that again.

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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blze001 View Post
My little brother is studying astronomy. They're livid about this, it's gonna severely inhibit ground-based observations.
For what its worth, I spotted these on Tuesday night, and even at culmination they weren't as bright as some other satellites that passed during that time.

From what I've read astronomers already have to use software to remove satellites from images, so I assume Starlink, at least in its early stages, will be business as usual.
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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 09:15 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blze001 View Post
My little brother is studying astronomy. They're livid about this, it's gonna severely inhibit ground-based observations.
Oh? Did he make sure to tweet about it? Bless his soul.

It won't effect him unless he's trying to do astronomy with a spyglass and polaroid camera.

Each satellite's orbit will be carefully plotted and the locations and times available publicly to astronomers. In most modern observatories, they'll just plug this information in to their scheduling software and work around it without a single issue. If their work requires observation of a target in an area where they cannot avoid the satellites, software already exists that will automatically adjust for speed, angle and albedo to delete it from the image over the entirety of the exposure as if it never existed. No data lost.

Do all ground based observatories have this? No. Most of them don't, actually, but that's kind of the point. Time to upgrade, those facilities could be much more efficient and effective if they stopped using mainframes dating back to the Reagan era.

Next time he kicks up a fuss about it, point out that by launching 60 satellites simultaneously SpaceX also demonstrated their ability to cheaply and effectively create an imaging device that is larger than the earth, meaning larger than the array of observatories used to take the first image of a black hole at a fraction of the cost, and at higher resolutions.

I love astronomy, it's one of my favorite sciences, but I swear sometimes I think actual astronomers imagine that they're all trapped in the 16th century with Galileo and they'd prefer it if the rest of the world never advanced beyond that point, just the telescopes.

It's like they don't realize that it takes hundreds of specialists from dozens of different industries to build those telescopes or something.

Meanwhile, now that I know I'll soon be able to get good internet while being as far away from society as possible, I think I'll start shopping for some prime real estate that would otherwise be off my radar, like a nice plot in the bottom of Hells Canyon where the walls can be as high as 7000 feet.


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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blze001 View Post
My little brother is studying astronomy. They're livid about this, it's gonna severely inhibit ground-based observations.
These satellites also enable the more isolated observatories (like the one in Antarctica) to be able to get their data out to be studied.


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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 07:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Ganf View Post
Oh? Did he make sure to tweet about it? Bless his soul.

It won't effect him unless he's trying to do astronomy with a spyglass and polaroid camera.

Each satellite's orbit will be carefully plotted and the locations and times available publicly to astronomers. In most modern observatories, they'll just plug this information in to their scheduling software and work around it without a single issue. If their work requires observation of a target in an area where they cannot avoid the satellites, software already exists that will automatically adjust for speed, angle and albedo to delete it from the image over the entirety of the exposure as if it never existed. No data lost.

Do all ground based observatories have this? No. Most of them don't, actually, but that's kind of the point. Time to upgrade, those facilities could be much more efficient and effective if they stopped using mainframes dating back to the Reagan era.

Next time he kicks up a fuss about it, point out that by launching 60 satellites simultaneously SpaceX also demonstrated their ability to cheaply and effectively create an imaging device that is larger than the earth, meaning larger than the array of observatories used to take the first image of a black hole at a fraction of the cost, and at higher resolutions.

I love astronomy, it's one of my favorite sciences, but I swear sometimes I think actual astronomers imagine that they're all trapped in the 16th century with Galileo and they'd prefer it if the rest of the world never advanced beyond that point, just the telescopes.

It's like they don't realize that it takes hundreds of specialists from dozens of different industries to build those telescopes or something.
And you don't realize how much of an impact these "primitive" ground-based scopes have on astronomy, not everyone can afford time with the Hubble or it's replacement. Or the cost of upgrading an entire observatory. Or how little funding observatories get because we live in a "eff science, if this doesn't make me money next quarter, it's useless" society.

He's in support of increasing internet access and thinks it's a net benefit, but he is lamenting what thousands of satellites overhead could do for ground-based observations.

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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blze001 View Post
And you don't realize how much of an impact these "primitive" ground-based scopes have on astronomy, not everyone can afford time with the Hubble or it's replacement. Or the cost of upgrading an entire observatory. Or how little funding observatories get because we live in a "eff science, if this doesn't make me money next quarter, it's useless" society.

He's in support of increasing internet access and thinks it's a net benefit, but he is lamenting what thousands of satellites overhead could do for ground-based observations.
There are already thousands of satellites in orbit and they are generally much bigger than star link satellites.

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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 08:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
Exactly. So, hypothetically speaking, this will only beat fiber in latency if a connection is established at a long enough distance.
You're assuming ground-based fiber optic cables go straight, and that the route uses the shortest path. Those are not valid assumptions.

90% of global internet traffic ends up going through the US. You send an email from LA to San Francisco, and there's a decent chance it routes through Chicago. The internet is full of these detours, and they're constantly shifting and changing as the networks seek to balance loads and compensate for problems.

Last edited by Mand12; 06-06-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post
You're assuming ground-based fiber optic cables go straight, and that the route uses the shortest path. Those are not valid assumptions.

90% of global internet traffic ends up going through the US. You send an email from LA to San Francisco, and there's a decent chance it routes through Chicago. The internet is full of these detours, and they're constantly shifting and changing as the networks seek to balance loads and compensate for problems.
I'm in Europe. I'm pretty sure latency-sensitive connections inside this continent do NOT go through the US, ever. A simple traceroute is enough to confirm this.

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