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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Would it be dumb to get something like this: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_39856_4800W-Cerwin-Vega-Hifonics-Bass-Bundle.html when I can afford it, and than add on from there?

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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Would it be dumb to get something like this: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_39856_4800W-Cerwin-Vega-Hifonics-Bass-Bundle.html when I can afford it, and than add on from there?

EDIT: can someone delete this one, I didn't mean to double post.

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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 11:49 PM
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I don't recommend playing the big watts trying to overcome inefficiency game in a vehicle with such a small alternator (Actually, I don't ever recommend playing that game period, but that's personal preference). IMO The subs you have can sound just fine with some proper EQ and possibly some slight mods to the boxes unless you are after raw SPL that they can't achieve. Just for the sake of argument, consider for a moment how many amps it takes to supply 1000W @ 12V. Assuming class D 90% efficiency, that's 1000W / 0.9 / 12V = 93A. The Rio we owned years ago had I believe an 80A alternator in it, and you are talking about a system rated 2400W RMS. Granted the newer model probably has a beefier alternator than the older ones, but still, how much bigger do you realistically think it is? 120A? 140A? Doesn't matter. Don't cause yourself those headaches.


The picture of the kia motor was either a 2000 or 2002, lots of changes since then so you probably have nothing to worry about. Those engines were notorious for random death like that. I will personally probably hold a grudge for awhile as it left my Wife stranded on the highway and it wasn't a "normal" sort of car failure that I could do a roadside repair on with a few tests and a trip to the parts store.


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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-25-2012, 01:33 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27288_RE-Audio-XT-1600.2V3.html
Would this power some pretty decent subs compared to what I have?

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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-25-2012, 01:35 AM
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http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27288_RE-Audio-XT-1600.2V3.html
Would this power some pretty decent subs compared to what I have?

It's only a 200w 2ch amplifier. You should be looking for a monoblock to power subs. Look into the Audiopipe AP10001D through the AP18001D ($140-200 amplifiers). I think the 15001D is about $150 at vmiinnovations. Those amplifiers will put out a TRUE 1,000-1,800w RMS (depending on the load).

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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-25-2012, 01:52 AM
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It's only a 200w 2ch amplifier. You should be looking for a monoblock to power subs. Look into the Audiopipe AP10001D through the AP18001D ($140-200 amplifiers). I think the 15001D is about $150 at vmiinnovations. Those amplifiers will put out a TRUE 1,000-1,800w RMS (depending on the load).

Where is he going to get 1800W FROM?!?!?! Your recommendation is a great way to leave him stranded somewhere with a fried alternator.

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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-25-2012, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post

It's only a 200w 2ch amplifier. You should be looking for a monoblock to power subs. Look into the Audiopipe AP10001D through the AP18001D ($140-200 amplifiers). I think the 15001D is about $150 at vmiinnovations. Those amplifiers will put out a TRUE 1,000-1,800w RMS (depending on the load).

Where is he going to get 1800W FROM?!?!?! Your recommendation is a great way to leave him stranded somewhere with a fried alternator.

The AP10001D would suffice fine honestly. And that's 1,000w RMS at 1ohm. There's nothing saying he HAS to use 1ohm on it. With a 4ohm load its only 400w RMS, and a 2ohm load is 600w RMS. That's all easily able to be ran off stock electrical. With a big 3 upgrade he could easily handle the 1ohm load at 1,000w.

You'd be very surprised what alternators are capable of handling with the right upgrades done. The best bang for the buck sub amp is the 15001D though at $150.

And who's to say that he has to TUNE the amp at that kind of power levels either? He could always just keep it tuned down for less power if his charging system isn't up to snuff. He's still be better off than running some junk 2 channel amp.

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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-25-2012, 08:41 AM
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If the AP1000D is capable of those power levels, cleanly, for that price, I'd say it's a great value, and most people would do well to run it at a fraction of maximum output to keep the electrical load and other distortion levels low.

The problem I have with "big wattage" approach is the incredible effect of diminishing returns. In a car, box space is limited so you are usually forced to run sealed boxes if you want any reasonable sound quality. Assuming box size stays the same, every few dB becomes exponentially more costly on the power front to achieve as greater Xmax and Pe usually results in reduced driver efficiency. The end result is that it's not uncommon to see a 1000W system that can only achieve a few dB better than a 100W system. I believe there are better ways to get those few extra dB that don't require the esoteric power levels.

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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-25-2012, 10:33 PM
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If the AP1000D is capable of those power levels, cleanly, for that price, I'd say it's a great value, and most people would do well to run it at a fraction of maximum output to keep the electrical load and other distortion levels low.

The problem I have with "big wattage" approach is the incredible effect of diminishing returns. In a car, box space is limited so you are usually forced to run sealed boxes if you want any reasonable sound quality. Assuming box size stays the same, every few dB becomes exponentially more costly on the power front to achieve as greater Xmax and Pe usually results in reduced driver efficiency. The end result is that it's not uncommon to see a 1000W system that can only achieve a few dB better than a 100W system. I believe there are better ways to get those few extra dB that don't require the esoteric power levels.

I was just giving him a good amplifier recommendation. I never once said that he HAD to use all the power it had available. The AP15001D is a solid budget amp at $153. It can do 1500w cleanly with 14.4v. About 1200w cleanly with around 12v (all at 1ohm). Obviously with a higher impedance means less power. And that does NOT mean he has to have the gain matched to put out anywhere NEAR that kind of power either.

I'm currently running 600w RMS at 2ohm in my car. Everything is 110% bone stock electrical, and I don't have a single bit of electrical problem. And this is all with tiny little 8ga wire too. I fail to see how recommending him an amplifier that will do the same with a single sub (2ohm load) would harm his car any.

And there's no problems with pushing a subwoofer to what it'll take honestly. No reason to give it 100w when it'll take 600.

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post #40 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-05-2018, 04:37 AM
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I apologize for bumping this old thread, but I would like to share my experience in this matter, since when I was looking for good advice on this topic for myself
It has been my experience that comparing sensitivity ratings from brand to brand is unreliable. Side by side comparisons on the same power often reflect a different outcome. Not all brands provide honest specs. Not all specs use the same qualifications, such as weighting, etc. The sensitivity rating may reflect the 'peak' rather than the 'average' and I do not want a peaky or erratic sounding speaker. Generally the more linear speakers will have a slightly lower sensitivity, whether marine, car or in home. A 1 watt sensitivity spec was very useful in the day of tube amplifiers because the power was so limited. In contrast, today, big power is relatively cheap so the speaker designer/builder has more options in choosing his objectives.
It may seem like a small distinction but there is a difference between sensitivity and efficiency. A speaker with a very short voice coil winding could have a sensitivity advantage at 1 watt but can quickly lose its effectiveness, or efficiency, at higher power levels with longer excursions. A speaker with a lower 1 watt sensitivity rating could actually play louder with 50 watts and provide deeper bass response.

I am sadly well versed with the "Bose for hire" system label, the EQ was set to preform within a certain specification with some adjustment available to the user. If someone can rebut me on this please do, as it would be nice to know if they have corrected their ways and demand on installing their own componentry again. The 80's Cadillac Bose system is a great example of at least partial proprietary componentry, using star drivers for front fill, plus specific amps (forget what the rears were). The same setup was also found in 80's Corvettes with some EQ and amp changes for the difference in layout and noise level.

My current car has the Bose moniker https://10carbest.com/best-car-speakers attached to the speakers and it sounds terrible, like i'm listening with wax paper and tin cans over my ears. I dream of having the JVC/CDT setup that I threw in my last work car. But that was not factory. I guess I could have been more specific on component breakdown and their true place in the reproduction of sound, but this is an open ended discussion targeted towards everyone here, with the encouragement to add technical details if they have the info readily available. But I digress
There are many interesting videos on YouTube, I'll leave one of them here, I hope someone will help in the future.

Last edited by Tamika; 09-05-2018 at 11:15 PM.
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