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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 06:18 PM
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Having a chance to sit down and read it fully, the main words that come to mind are "just what on earth is this guy on?" Where does he feel thousands if not millions of volunteers will come from when the main reason people don't do volunteer computing is mainly due to the cost (initial investment in hardware, ongoing maintenance costs, and especially electricity). Oh, and like Egilman mentioned, the noise. Some of us don't mind it at all....

....Others find my living room unbearably noisy, or hot...... And I'm only running two computers with one GPU (although atm the GPU is off due to summer)

The only thing going with a centralized model is going to do is frustrate and irritate those who already support distributed computing in general, doubly so since most people hone in on the fact that they're volunteering their hardware, resources, and wallet(s) in order to help out science. Removing the ability to choose what's run is only going to cause even fewer people to help out - I'd argue that it would cause even more problems than just consolidating choices down kind of like how WCG does (say with the categories of math, physics, biochemical, etc)... Even though WCG they're all separate projects in and of themselves.





In short... He claims he wants to further BOINC and make it more appealing to the masses, all while blaming factors that aren't really the main problem....... Yeaaaaaaaaah, I can't write what I want to write here, but I'll admit my opinion of this kind of attempted maneuver is chock full of language that isn't pretty.

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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Having a chance to sit down and read it fully, the main words that come to mind are "just what on earth is this guy on?" Where does he feel thousands if not millions of volunteers will come from when the main reason people don't do volunteer computing is mainly due to the cost (initial investment in hardware, ongoing maintenance costs, and especially electricity). Oh, and like Egilman mentioned, the noise. Some of us don't mind it at all....

....Others find my living room unbearably noisy, or hot...... And I'm only running two computers with one GPU (although atm the GPU is off due to summer)

The only thing going with a centralized model is going to do is frustrate and irritate those who already support distributed computing in general, doubly so since most people hone in on the fact that they're volunteering their hardware, resources, and wallet(s) in order to help out science. Removing the ability to choose what's run is only going to cause even fewer people to help out - I'd argue that it would cause even more problems than just consolidating choices down kind of like how WCG does (say with the categories of math, physics, biochemical, etc)... Even though WCG they're all separate projects in and of themselves.





In short... He claims he wants to further BOINC and make it more appealing to the masses, all while blaming factors that aren't really the main problem....... Yeaaaaaaaaah, I can't write what I want to write here, but I'll admit my opinion of this kind of attempted maneuver is chock full of language that isn't pretty.

Lol when i read the part where he says i got enough money to pay my salary but only 50% of my workers i was like this guy is only out for himself words i thought of i cant put on ocn loL Lets just call him a "WANNABE GREEDY CEO"


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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 06:33 PM
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Lol when i read the part where he says i got enough money to pay my salary but only 50% of my workers i was like this guy is only out for himself words i thought of i cant put on ocn loL Lets just call him a "WANNABE GREEDY CEO"

Ohh man, somehow I totally missed remembering that part.... What kind of leader pays himself but doesn't bother to fully pay those helping him push things further? Bossman is the last to get a cut of the money, ALWAYS pay your employees (and bills) first!

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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bal3Wolf View Post

Lol when i read the part where he says i got enough money to pay my salary but only 50% of my workers i was like this guy is only out for himself words i thought of i cant put on ocn loL Lets just call him a "WANNABE GREEDY CEO"

Ohh man, somehow I totally missed remembering that part.... What kind of leader pays himself but doesn't bother to fully pay those helping him push things further? Bossman is the last to get a cut of the money, ALWAYS pay your employees (and bills) first!

Yea and he said himself hes not really part of boinc anymore but yet he wants to to push all its power to his agenda.


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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I read it as there was no one else to even pay.

Since the email was the absolute only place I could find that link I suggest it be posted somewhere in a reply back to him. Looks like he put up a link on the BOINC forums:

https://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=11647


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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 07:31 PM
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I read it as there was no one else to even pay.

Since the email was the absolute only place I could find that link I suggest it be posted somewhere in a reply back to him. Looks like he put up a link on the BOINC forums:

https://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=11647

And this was my reply...
Quote:
Dr Anderson,

Personally, I think your developing your way out of volunteer computing.

Everyone I've had a chance to talk to about your "TBD" posting of the 1st states unequivocally that in no way would they remain involved if you took their project/work choice out of the equation.

Neither would I.

Just my opinion but I am the #1 non-asic boinc producer in the world. We exchanged a few emails back in the old Seti I days concerning the last cheating scandal and the future. You iterated for me your vision of what Boinc was to be, and it was good. Turned me into a believer.

Your "TBD" proposal just tells me that DC has run it's course on a volunteer basis.

If it does come to fruition, I will not be along for the ride.....

Thank you for the 15 years of fun....

EG, formerly of Ars Technica, currently of Overclock.net

I sincerely wish you good luck with your proposal... (I just don't see how it is going to work for us individuals out here)

Will be interesting to see if he even responds....
{edited for clarity}


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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 07:46 PM
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WhiteWulfe , you need some Noctuas and Thermalright TY series fans (among other reputable low noise fans such as Gentle Typhoons). It will help with the noise tongue.gif

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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 07:54 PM
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That is what Gridcoin is trying to do with their phoney money..... Problem is I don't see any electric utility accepting Gridcoin as payment, today, OR in the future....

The only ones making any money on GC are the ones that got in early grabbed all the GRC they could and are now selling at much inflated values.

GC wants to keep it going by changing the algorithim to allow for more GRC being created than a normal BitCoin project. this enables them to grow their base even larger than any other.

That is the problem with Bit Coin in general it requires one of two things, a very small base holding all the coin driving up the value or a large base with an easily mined surplus of coinsreadily being staked to the people desiring of participating to keep the demand up. this is why they advertise like they do.

Without new peopleGRC will have to revert back to the original BC formula, and with millions of users demanding more they will reap the whirlwind, unless everyone rejects GRC's inflated values. at which point it all collapses.

This is why GRC wants to eliminate the team requirement of GRC to crunch boinc. At that point, Boinc does one thing only, supports and strengthens GRC.

No matter what you run.

I don't see all projects going for the deal no matter what incentives GRC offers, and GRC is expecting to grow to the point where the projects will HAVE to have GRC crunchers to function.

Effectively, when that point is reached, GRC controls Boinc....

GRC is a project aimed at growing their brand of bitcoin and expanding their market reach, they are using Boinc to do it.....

When it gets to the point where I have to take or sign onto GRC to boinc, I guess I'll revert to folding or quit altogether.

And as far as Dr Anderson and Berekely is concerned what GRC is doing is quite fine with them.....

So I have absolutely no respect for them anymore.... And yes I have had discussions with Dr Anderson back in the Seti I days over the state of Seti when Boinc was just a gleam in his eye.

I really do not like where Boinc is going....

I agree about the crypo coins... best I can understand it is that people invest and then the mines "verify" transactions of that coin... in the end, someone will lose when the crypo coin markets come crashing down.


What I mean is real currency in exchange for compute power used for research.

In a volunteer grid where we choose the project I feel it is essential that the people running the work have the ability to choose the very specifics of what they are running.

In a paid system, if we were to be paid by researchers for the computational power we supply to them, I wouldn't mind as much to run any work they throw at my computers as it would be more likely to have a legitimate benefit. There is no way I would run whatever they want me to run... for free.


Needles to say, I am happy with the volunteer method. I like picking what I run and only running projects I decided that I want to run. I don't do the coin mining stuff, even though it would probably pay my heat bill in the winter and make some decent coin that could be sold for real currency and even turn a slight profit in the summer as well...



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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 07:57 PM
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WhiteWulfe , you need some Noctuas and Thermalright TY series fans (among other reputable low noise fans such as Gentle Typhoons). It will help with the noise tongue.gif

*snerks* No thanks, my Cryorig R1 Ultimate does the job on JägerWulfe, as do the two floor fans we picked up at Princess Auto (think Harbour Freight if you're in the US) help with keeping fresh air flowing through the living room.

We're just so used to the small bit of noise in our place that when we turn computers off to move things around or clean, the silence feels deafening... ^_^

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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 09:25 PM
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I replied as well. Me thinks these messages will go unanswered.



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