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post #601 of 685 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 03:56 PM
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Ah corsair the choice mouse for pcmasterrace plebmasterrace

https://www.overclock.net/t/1572872/firmware-added-button-delay-testing-attempts-diy-open-your-mouse

Already tested it. Corsair mice in general are just bad
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You know I consider redditors to be the bleeding heart type. Hope they know the factory Corsair uses on these mice have supposedly very poor working conditions compared to those of similar size.

Ah I didn't search that thread and just didn't see it in the OP on the list of mice tested. I wonder if I was just doing that bad of a job bump testing or what. I guess it makes sense that I just did a bad job since the min is near what you were getting for measurements and those are probably the more accurate ones with the higher ones just due to me doing a bad job.

Anyway once I actually search that thread I see the Sabre does alright. Have corsair improved or changed their ways now? I remember reading the M45 also had really bad delay as well as the M90 so it seems like all of their older mice are just terrible with at least 12-20ms delay. Now I'm curious I had given up on corsair entirely after buying an M65 quite a while ago before I knew ANYTHING about mice and actually enjoying the shape, but hating pretty much every single other thing about it. The Sabre actually seems like a fairly interesting mouse though. I guess the Katar is also bad though. Too bad because it looks like it could be an alright mouse other than that. Was the Sabre just a fluke or something?

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post #602 of 685 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 05:34 PM
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Ah I didn't search that thread and just didn't see it in the OP on the list of mice tested. I wonder if I was just doing that bad of a job bump testing or what. I guess it makes sense that I just did a bad job since the min is near what you were getting for measurements and those are probably the more accurate ones with the higher ones just due to me doing a bad job.

Anyway once I actually search that thread I see the Sabre does alright. Have corsair improved or changed their ways now? I remember reading the M45 also had really bad delay as well as the M90 so it seems like all of their older mice are just terrible with at least 12-20ms delay. Now I'm curious I had given up on corsair entirely after buying an M65 quite a while ago before I knew ANYTHING about mice and actually enjoying the shape, but hating pretty much every single other thing about it. The Sabre actually seems like a fairly interesting mouse though. I guess the Katar is also bad though. Too bad because it looks like it could be an alright mouse other than that. Was the Sabre just a fluke or something?

Sabre was like that out of the box. If you update the firmware it goes all to hell. So yeah, it's a fluke.

Katar supposedly is from a different factory, but even then, surprise surprise, it's +16ms.
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post #603 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 12:08 AM
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Is the any research of what can give SO different results? Right debounce logic, AFAIK - register first click(on) of switch and then supress registration of subsequent off and on in some time interval. This time interval restrict _double_ click speed, but not the latency of first click itself.
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post #604 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 01:50 AM
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Is the any research of what can give SO different results? Right debounce logic, AFAIK - register first click(on) of switch and then supress registration of subsequent off and on in some time interval. This time interval restrict _double_ click speed, but not the latency of first click itself.

Corsair probably uses different algorithm that is dependant on HOW the mouse is clicked. Algorithm is:

Wait for n readings of 1 then register mousedown => wait for n readings of 0 then register mouseup.

Although this algorithm almost never can give a doubleclick problem, the actual registration delay would range depending on how the switch is being clicked.
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post #605 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 03:18 AM
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Corsair probably uses different algorithm that is dependant on HOW the mouse is clicked. Algorithm is:

Wait for n readings of 1 then register mousedown => wait for n readings of 0 then register mouseup.

Although this algorithm almost never can give a doubleclick problem, the actual registration delay would range depending on how the switch is being clicked.
Yes, this algorithm is tolerate to false doubleclicks. But!
1. It give systematic latency (a. n waits minimum + b. some fast on/off in beginning of click)
2. Аnd latency increase when switch aging (b. increases).
Good for office devices, not for gaming wink.gif
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post #606 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 03:41 AM
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Good for office devices, not for gaming wink.gif

Despite that it's apparently used in alot of gaming mice, unfortunately. Even though there is another algorithm that can allow low latency AND not produce double click problem.
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post #607 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 03:48 AM
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gaming mice
But why the things which have not some property - named as having such property? biggrin.gif
P.S. Yes, I know - small _fixed_ click latency is not the problem in gaming.
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post #608 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 09:10 AM
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But why the things which have not some property - named as having such property? biggrin.gif
Because otherwise only very few mice would deserve the "gaming" property. tongue.gif
It's sad, but at least - and I am confident that this forum actively contributed to that - the awareness for click latency has increased throughout the last 2 years or so. Hopefully in the future everyone that dares to call themselves "gaming" will implement good debounce or even debounceless optical microswitches.
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post #609 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 03:44 PM
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Wingman debounce button release is set at a minimum of 27ms. Modern Logitech mice are set to 19-21ms. Neat to see that even in 1999, that programming trait was already in use.

The freaking Wingman from 1999 already was doing the more sound debouncing method. Though, I have tested enough mice to see that method used elsewhere by other manufacturers.
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post #610 of 685 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 06:10 PM
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20ms is an overkill. Afaik, mouse switches bounce on closing for like 6ms.
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