USB polling precision - Page 84 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

USB polling precision

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #831 of 1186 (permalink) Old 03-20-2019, 06:00 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Syntractrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 23
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Forget about dpc latency, isr, mouse polling rate and so on. Just reinstall windows and don't do any optimizations that you don't know.
Syntractrix is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #832 of 1186 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 10:47 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
empl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 93
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Btw for low latency:

INTEL CHIPSET DRIVER: INTEL ENGINE OR HOW IT CALLS IS RECOMMENDED TO NOT INSTALL - tho some users having had fps drops without them, it depends as with everything, THEY CAUSE INPUT LAG tho, SAME FOR INTEL SATA DRIVERS. But if you need copying fast you have to install them. Usb drivers you should install from motherboard website, or intel site probably, windows already installed latest, but not necessarily. FORGET HOW IT CALLS, USUALLY IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO USE PROGRAMS OR DOWNLOAD FROM SHADY SITES DRIVERS
Set everything you can into msi mode, except gpu, on nvidia said it specifies msi-x number in drivers programming, but with msi mode on i have lower latency, strange. And lines in nvdispi.inf msi 1 are for old devices which would stop working otherwise.

I tested in windows, i have razer death adder elite, 500hz and i move mouse at the straight line across monitor. I got under interval vs time 80 us, also latencymon reports execution time under usb 70-100us.

I have optimized interrupts, everything in msi-x mode except usb 2, unfortunately doesn't work on my motherboard - intel series 7 chipset.

Btw affinity setting for drivers are ignored at hardware level said latencymon support, if you wanted assign one core for only for usb, it could be ignore by hardware. Also today usb should support msi, even usb2.

About priority control, it is supposedly old residue from windowsNT and it is not clear it works, but i am sensitive to input lag and mouse feels snappier. I have to yet test it, with latencymon and mousetest ... Also there is under hklm/currentcontrolset/enum/device - devicepriority dword value under affinity of drivers in regedit, which should be same thing like priority control. My nic set it to high after installation of latest drivers.

You can turn dwm off in windows 10: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/c...mposition_for/
But maybe you will get black screen in fullscreen mode, problem is windowed mode may cause frame drops. Go into win+r gpedit.msc windows components and disable everything under dwm, it reduces latency slightly.

In windows 10 it is possible appearance setting may not save, if you disable themes services, there is way to set it in registry too, currently it is working for me tho.

Also windows updates are problem, there is wutm wrapper script which disabled auto updates, but checking every update for issue manually takes a lot of time.

You can delete flash player from windows 10 seems to reduce input lag.

Deleting sheduled process, even like google chrome, or changing any setting, caused for me weird lag, which disappeared only after reinstall, so i am afraid to change sheduled processes in microsoft sheduler.

BTW you should probably check motherboard before buying pc, even expensive asus motherboard suffered from high dpc latency and every feature it has.

<b>EDIT:</b>
I tested this tweak again and take it back, it doesn't feel snappier, tho previously changed yet cmos and gpu priority, which i read it can help in one book, so i can be that, i need yet to test order of these. I put irq number of my 1E2D usb ehci controller under prioritycontrol and tested it latencymon (while maxed polling rate), i got much higher like 108~us with this tweak and mouse feels ****ty, than without - 88~

Last edited by empl; 11-23-2019 at 04:08 AM.
empl is offline  
post #833 of 1186 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 06:11 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
x7007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,201
Rep: 12 (Unique: 12)
Quote: Originally Posted by empl View Post

I tested in windows, i have razer death adder elite, 500hz and i move mouse at the straight line across monitor. I got under interval vs time 80 us, also latencymon reports execution time under usb 70-100us.

I have optimized interrupts, everything in msi-x mode except usb 2, unfortunately doesn't work on my motherboard - intel series 7 chipset.

Btw affinity setting for drivers are ignored at hardware level said latencymon support, if you wanted assign one core for only for usb, it could be ignore by hardware. Also today usb should support msi, even usb2.

About priority control, it is supposedly old residue from windowsNT and it is not clear it works, but i am sensitive to input lag and mouse feels snappier. I have to yet test it, with latencymon and mousetest ... Also there is under hklm/currentcontrolset/enum/device - devicepriority dword value under affinity of drivers in regedit, which should be same thing like priority control. My nic set it to high after installation of latest drivers.

You can turn dwm off in windows 10: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/c...mposition_for/
But maybe you will get black screen in fullscreen mode, problem is windowed mode may cause frame drops. Go into win+r gpedit.msc windows components and disable everything under dwm, it reduces latency slightly.

In windows 10 it is possible appearance setting may not save, if you disable themes services, there is way to set it in registry too, currently it is working for me tho.

Also windows updates are problem, there is wutm wrapper script which disabled auto updates, but checking every update for issue manually takes a lot of time.

You can delete flash player from windows 10 seems to reduce input lag.

Deleting sheduled service, even like google chrome, or changing any setting, caused for me weird lag, which dissapered only after reinstall, so i am afraid to change sheduled processes in microsoft sheduler.

BTW you should probably check motherboard before buying pc, even expensive asus motherboard suffered from high dpc latency and every feature it has.
Did you see the issue with Windows 1809 and above?

Is there a way we can fix this?



Because I can't manage to fix this, it seems repeatedly the same with 1000hz mouse, I tested on 2 computers, it's the same on both. I tested 125 Generic Microsoft mice and it is fine on both computers getting perfect 125 dots on the line with 1903

Taken from this guide if you missed it

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Mi2C3XSQ/edit#

RIGWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
CPU :AMD 1950X @ 3.7 Ghz 1.280
MOBO : Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0)
RAM : G.SKILL Flare X Series 32GBx4 DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Model F4-3200C14D-16GFX)
GPU :INNO3D Nvidia GeForce GTX1080 8G D5 1759Mhz iChill X3
Sound Card For 5.1 Speakers : Asus Strix RAID DLX
Network Card : SolareFlare SFN6122F SFP+ 10Gbit Dual Port PCIEx4
PSU : ThermalTake 850Watt ToughPower
STORAGE
SanDisk Extreme PRO SSD 480Gb OS
WD Gold 6TB DataCenter 7200 128MB DATA/GAMEZ
Seagate 5TB Enterprise 7200 128MB (ST5000NM0024) DATA/GAMEZ
Samsung x2 1TB 7200 RAID0 GAMEZ
Segate 3TB Backup+ Desktop USB External BACKUP

GEAR and Sound
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
TV : LG OLED55C6 TV
Mouse : Logitech G502
Mouse Pad : SteelSeries I-2 Black
Keyboard : Corsair Gaming K70 RAPIDFIRE
GamePad : Xbox Elite Controller + Xbox Wireless Adapter
Headphones : Beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohms
A...


x7007 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #834 of 1186 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 08:38 AM
OCN is bad civilization
 
Melan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: 0,0
Posts: 3,490
Rep: 122 (Unique: 91)
Man, I swear these people will look for any sort of excuse these days.
Melan is offline  
post #835 of 1186 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 12:50 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
numberfive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 619
Rep: 22 (Unique: 12)
Quote: Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
Did you see the issue with Windows 1809 and above?

Is there a way we can fix this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG4g9XlKw5w


Because I can't manage to fix this, it seems repeatedly the same with 1000hz mouse, I tested on 2 computers, it's the same on both. I tested 125 Generic Microsoft mice and it is fine on both computers getting perfect 125 dots on the line with 1903

Taken from this guide if you missed it

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Mi2C3XSQ/edit#
80% of this is meaningless, the rest is debatable.
numberfive is offline  
post #836 of 1186 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 03:53 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
empl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 93
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
Did you see the issue with Windows 1809 and above?

Is there a way we can fix this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG4g9XlKw5w


Because I can't manage to fix this, it seems repeatedly the same with 1000hz mouse, I tested on 2 computers, it's the same on both. I tested 125 Generic Microsoft mice and it is fine on both computers getting perfect 125 dots on the line with 1903

Taken from this guide if you missed it

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Mi2C3XSQ/edit#
Didn't see complete video yet... What do you mean by 125 dots ? Yeah i heard there was some bug increasing DPC latency on older builds than 1903. Update to 1903 supposed to fix it, but for some users updating to 1903 didn't fixed it ! What issue you even mean, there was something in win 8 allowing only 250 or 125 polling rate, but didn't heard of it in win 10.

About what he speaks in that video: you shouldn't force platformclock on, but let windows decide. Bases on correspondence from expert on hpet - can be found on: https://www.tweakhound.com/2014/01/3...s-benchmarked/
But ofc you can test it, maybe it could help some people. Wait he speaks about platformtick, not platform clock !!

Correct me if i am wrong but:
Here is site from microsoft on counter, which should be only system counter as i understand it, not actual timer ! https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ounters-portal
Basically when system needs execute events at right times with high precision and computer keeps time using ticks, this counter is used to time them out precisely. Even on microsoft is - this option should be only used for debbuging.

Didn't find similar page on platformtick, but as i understand it - platformtick is actually used for drivers/system/applications to update code to cpu aka resolution timer. Didn't even find any page from MS, or experts on it, only pasted this command on reddit with this video, which may or may not be good.

When i applied this tweak - platformtick, my mouse feels heavier, but more precise i think and dpc latency increased by 90 (in latencymon) for nvidia driver during playing this video, but it can be coincidence, i don't know if you get even same value, just from being idle in system. Not sure how to tell if it helped for all drivers, can be tricky to test e.g how you tell if difference is too small ? Hmm for usb it decreased from 88 to 78. And i usually have something around 80 from multiple tests... No wait, now it jumped to 200 for some reason it may be one time, maybe i should test total dpc lat. for like 1 min. But it is hard to keep 500hz polling rate long time, again it is hard to test and how i supposed to stop exactly after 1 minute.. And even if i disabled nic and audio, i don't think gpu has same values by being idle in system..

I would really like peoples input on this, with platformtick enabled, i have feeling my mouse is much more accurate, but i wouldn't say input lag, but it feels much heavier and i wouldn't say it is something you can get used to. I will definitely test it on new pc.

Btw if you wanna lower dpc and input lag overall, i can give you a lot of tips, i must have read like 10k tweaking forums posts and sites No BS !!!

Last edited by empl; 11-23-2019 at 07:17 AM.
empl is offline  
post #837 of 1186 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 06:40 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
x7007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,201
Rep: 12 (Unique: 12)
Quote: Originally Posted by empl View Post
Didn't see complete video yet... What do you mean by 125 dots ? Yeah i heard there was some bug increasing DPC latency on older builds than 1903. Update to 1903 supposed to fix it, but for some users updating to 1903 didn't fixed it !

About what he speaks in that video: you shouldn't force platformclock on, but let windows decide. Bases on correspondence from expert on hpet - can be found on: https://www.tweakhound.com/2014/01/3...s-benchmarked/
But ofc you can test it, maybe it could help some people. Wait he speaks about platformtick, not platform clock !!

Correct me if i am wrong but:
Here is site from microsoft on counter, which should be only system counter as i understand it, not actual timer ! https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ounters-portal
Basically when system needs execute events at right times with high precision and computer keeps time using ticks, this counter is used to time them out precisely. Even on microsoft is - this option should be only used for debbuging.

Didn't find similar page on platformtick, but as i understand it - platformtick is actually used for drivers/system/applications to update code to cpu aka resolution timer. Didn't even find any page from MS, or experts on it, only pasted this command on reddit with this video, which may or may not be good.

When i applied this tweak - platformtick, my mouse feels heavier, but more precise i think and dpc latency increased by 90 (in latencymon) for nvidia driver during playing this video, but it can be coincidence, i don't know if you get even same value, just from being idle in system. Not sure how to tell if it helped for all drivers, can be tricky to test e.g how you tell if difference is too small ? Hmm for usb it decreased from 88 to 78. And i usually have something around 80 from multiple tests... No wait, now it jumped to 200 for some reason it may be one time, maybe i should test total dpc lat. for like 1 min. But it is hard to keep 500hz polling rate long time, again it is hard to test and how i supposed to stop exactly after 1 minute.. And even if i disabled nic and audio, i don't think gpu has same values by being idle in system..

I would really like peoples input on this, with platformtick enabled, i have feeling my mouse is much more accurate, but i wouldn't say input lag, but it feels much heavier and i wouldn't say it is something you can get used to. I will definitely test it on new pc.

Btw if you wanna lower dpc and input lag overall, i can give you a lot of tips, i must have read like 10k tweaking forums posts and sites No BS !!!


For me having DisableDynamicTick makes the mouse super faster. Did you try both or just platformtick?
Also, 2 of my friends said they feel the mouse is faster and they can control it better. Both on laptops.


I've found some more details for my issues.

What fixed my Mouse issues are as follows from top to low. this will depend on your spec I think Intel and AMD, some things won't effect like mine.

Disable Spectre protection using InSpectre.exe

Command Prompt
bcdedit /set DisabledynamicTick Yes
bcdedit /set useplatformTick Yes

Put GPU on MSI mode using MSI_util_v2.exe

Change Drivers files Core Affinity offloading from Core0... Only GPU/USB using interrupt_affinity_policy_tool.msi

DO NOT Install Windows Sandbox


Obviously things to do

Power Mangement High Performance or Ultra


Bios

CPU Phase Power Mode Should be High Performance or Extreme
DRAM also Extreme
Legacy USB Doesn't seem to have big effect / Still checking
Secure Boot does not have any effect, also it doesn't really enabled, if you do not enable the GPEDIT.msc
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html
HPET Enabled in Bios

Installing Monitor driver for my TV OLED LG E6 Locking/Buffering EDID using MonInfo. Because EDID will try to comminucate every second using sending HDCP information and everytime it doesn't for any reason you will lose signal, having bad precision or just other stall of information.

RIGWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
CPU :AMD 1950X @ 3.7 Ghz 1.280
MOBO : Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0)
RAM : G.SKILL Flare X Series 32GBx4 DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Model F4-3200C14D-16GFX)
GPU :INNO3D Nvidia GeForce GTX1080 8G D5 1759Mhz iChill X3
Sound Card For 5.1 Speakers : Asus Strix RAID DLX
Network Card : SolareFlare SFN6122F SFP+ 10Gbit Dual Port PCIEx4
PSU : ThermalTake 850Watt ToughPower
STORAGE
SanDisk Extreme PRO SSD 480Gb OS
WD Gold 6TB DataCenter 7200 128MB DATA/GAMEZ
Seagate 5TB Enterprise 7200 128MB (ST5000NM0024) DATA/GAMEZ
Samsung x2 1TB 7200 RAID0 GAMEZ
Segate 3TB Backup+ Desktop USB External BACKUP

GEAR and Sound
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
TV : LG OLED55C6 TV
Mouse : Logitech G502
Mouse Pad : SteelSeries I-2 Black
Keyboard : Corsair Gaming K70 RAPIDFIRE
GamePad : Xbox Elite Controller + Xbox Wireless Adapter
Headphones : Beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohms
A...



Last edited by x7007; 11-23-2019 at 06:44 AM.
x7007 is offline  
post #838 of 1186 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 07:46 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
empl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 93
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
I have intel..
I tried only platformtick and restarted pc, platformclock should be used only for debugging MS says and i tried that in past and it sucked. My cpu has spectre protection, but not a meltdown. Btw i didn't know about this util, even i know grc, thank you glad to see something new. I will test it again on my new pc. But for now, i agree mouse is more accurate, but sucks, it feels heavier or something. Even i don't have much dpc latency, it says my system can handle audio and video without dropouts, during load.

About gpu, i talked to nvidia dev and he said: nvidia specifies msi-x support and number of supported interrupts (it is that number like 1, 2, 4, 8 or up to 2048) to allocate in their driver coding. And that setting in registry creates only for devices, which would not handle higher number. But it is strange, i definitely feel less input lag if i switch msi mode on. And msi util doesn't even show msi-x support under my gpu, only msi-x.

I talked to latencymon support and they said, interrupt affinity setting from registry can be ignored on driver/hardware level. But if not it could theoretically work i guess, but i don't know how to check how many cores driver uses, in latencymon it shows only cores with highest execution time.

Btw. How did you meant it exactly ? Having gpu and usb on core 0 and rest on other cores ? I am pretty sure both devices should use more cores as they support msi (usb only on new gen mobos). Also if you played like cs go on 1 core, if it is even possible nowadays, you could theoretically clear one core from interrupts, if you have enough cores, like with amd, but than you have less cores for interrupts, don't know if there would be any benefit of doing that, especially in other games, when you need more cores on game.

Windows sandbox don't know even what it is.

Power management ultra and unparked cores, disable usb saving and important thing (disabled idle saver so cpu works in c0 state always), process lasso should do that automatically if you you designate high perf. process, but than it doesn't switch back to balance, after you quit game..

Some of these i currently don't use, or don't have, i have old cheap mobo.

Legacy usb off lowers input lag, but make mouse crappy on some mobos

I have hpet on too

Btw google r0ach, or roach on these forums for input lag tips.
And check my input lag tweaks i found during years, at least all i can remember. Steam has good input lag guides on cs go, which is usable everywhere, or sound production forums have interesting info.

https://www.tenforums.com/gaming/117...your-mind.html
empl is offline  
post #839 of 1186 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 09:10 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
x7007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,201
Rep: 12 (Unique: 12)
Quote: Originally Posted by empl View Post
I have intel..
I tried only platformtick and restarted pc, platformclock should be used only for debugging MS says and i tried that in past and it sucked. My cpu has spectre protection, but not a meltdown. Btw i didn't know about this util, even i know grc, thank you glad to see something new. I will test it again on my new pc. But for now, i agree mouse is more accurate, but sucks, it feels heavier or something. Even i don't have much dpc latency, it says my system can handle audio and video without dropouts, during load.

About gpu, i talked to nvidia dev and he said: nvidia specifies msi-x support and number of supported interrupts (it is that number like 1, 2, 4, 8 or up to 2048) to allocate in their driver coding. And that setting in registry creates only for devices, which would not handle higher number. But it is strange, i definitely feel less input lag if i switch msi mode on. And msi util doesn't even show msi-x support under my gpu, only msi-x.

I talked to latencymon support and they said, interrupt affinity setting from registry can be ignored on driver/hardware level. But if not it could theoretically work i guess, but i don't know how to check how many cores driver uses, in latencymon it shows only cores with highest execution time.

Btw. How did you meant it exactly ? Having gpu and usb on core 0 and rest on other cores ? I am pretty sure both devices should use more cores as they support msi (usb only on new gen mobos). Also if you played like cs go on 1 core, if it is even possible nowadays, you could theoretically clear one core from interrupts, if you have enough cores, like with amd, but than you have less cores for interrupts, don't know if there would be any benefit of doing that, especially in other games, when you need more cores on game.

Windows sandbox don't know even what it is.

Power management ultra and unparked cores, disable usb saving and important thing (disabled idle saver so cpu works in c0 state always), process lasso should do that automatically if you you designate high perf. process, but than it doesn't switch back to balance, after you quit game..

Some of these i currently don't use, or don't have, i have old cheap mobo.

Legacy usb off lowers input lag, but make mouse crappy on some mobos

I have hpet on too

Btw google r0ach, or roach on these forums for input lag tips.
And check my input lag tweaks i found during years, at least all i can remember. Steam has good input lag guides on cs go, which is usable everywhere, or sound production forums have interesting info.

https://www.tenforums.com/gaming/117...your-mind.html

With the affinity program you need to deselect Core0-1 and leave the others, this way you offload all the processes to other cores because every single crap and driver works on Core0-1 so having it without GPU and USB processing makes it better.

EDIT : I read everything he wrote on this thread, seems I have more things to test. but we are on the right track, ones and for all we know 50% fixes for our issues. we are not lost anymore.

RIGWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
CPU :AMD 1950X @ 3.7 Ghz 1.280
MOBO : Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0)
RAM : G.SKILL Flare X Series 32GBx4 DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Model F4-3200C14D-16GFX)
GPU :INNO3D Nvidia GeForce GTX1080 8G D5 1759Mhz iChill X3
Sound Card For 5.1 Speakers : Asus Strix RAID DLX
Network Card : SolareFlare SFN6122F SFP+ 10Gbit Dual Port PCIEx4
PSU : ThermalTake 850Watt ToughPower
STORAGE
SanDisk Extreme PRO SSD 480Gb OS
WD Gold 6TB DataCenter 7200 128MB DATA/GAMEZ
Seagate 5TB Enterprise 7200 128MB (ST5000NM0024) DATA/GAMEZ
Samsung x2 1TB 7200 RAID0 GAMEZ
Segate 3TB Backup+ Desktop USB External BACKUP

GEAR and Sound
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
TV : LG OLED55C6 TV
Mouse : Logitech G502
Mouse Pad : SteelSeries I-2 Black
Keyboard : Corsair Gaming K70 RAPIDFIRE
GamePad : Xbox Elite Controller + Xbox Wireless Adapter
Headphones : Beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohms
A...



Last edited by x7007; 11-23-2019 at 10:32 AM.
x7007 is offline  
post #840 of 1186 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019, 11:01 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Nawafwabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 277
Rep: 5 (Unique: 4)
So many kids in this forum , talk about how those tweak are useless and they didnt tried it , just talk blalallaalalalal and do nothing in their life
Nawafwabs is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off