USB mouse hard overclocking (2000 Hz+) - Page 68 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

USB mouse hard overclocking (2000 Hz+)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #671 of 688 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
SweetLow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 469
Rep: 54 (Unique: 30)
Quote: Originally Posted by bin kk View Post
I don't know if my mouse is the problem or my computer is the problem.
Mouse with very high probability.
SweetLow is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #672 of 688 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 03:11 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 3
Rep: 0
Great thread! https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/ benchmarks claim that the Apple II measured the lowest input device -> on screen latency. Thoughts? These tests claim lower latency is possible today than Dan measured in the Apple II: https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync ... ettings/3/

a) Can one have the lowest latency computer to date using the latest hardware?
b) What is the lowest latency hardware, in your view?

Secondly, there are claims of optical keyboard switches being the lowest latency. I'm trying to replace my mechanical keyboard's switches with the lowest latency - but even after asking manufacturers it is hard to get claims & benchmarks. Few seem to care about determining keyboard switch latency. Thoughts on which are the lowest? And yes, I'll be setting the keyboard to 1ms polling - and currently trying to determine how it scans the keys (some scanning methods seem to make polling 'per key' a lot more than 1ms).

Thirdly, testers now seem to concur that the top bluetooth & wired mice are the same latency? Do you concur? If so, then what do you think is the lowest latency (in sensor & clicker) *wired* mouse?

Fourthly, is there any evidence USB4 will bring lower latency? I haven't seen any.

Fifth, Dan seems to be claiming that the latency in modern computers is partially coming from the components between the screen & input devices. Do we have any accurate measurements of that part of the path? I don't see how it (motherboard, CPU, GPU, RAM) would cause more than 1ms latency (not including heavy processing needed to draw the graphics for a game, or something - I'm just talking about button presses and cursor movement).

Sixth, anyone here overclocking to 2000Hz+ on Linux?

Seventh, do you know if you can overclock the polling rate of an Apple magic trackpad - or any other top trackpads? I've had trouble finding any info on increasing the polling rate of trackpads.

Thanks - this is one of the best low latency threads on the web right now!
1ms_hand2eye is offline  
post #673 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
SweetLow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 469
Rep: 54 (Unique: 30)
Quote: Originally Posted by 1ms_hand2eye View Post
Great thread!
First of all, the low latency for the clicks has very low importance. Much more important is low dispersion. And luckily overclocking reduces the last.

>Secondly, there are claims of optical keyboard switches being the lowest latency.
Right hardware has zero latency in any case:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post24927320
My dialog with M1st.

>Fourthly, is there any evidence USB4 will bring lower latency? I haven't seen any.
1. There is no such thing as USB4. At all.
2. There is no such thing as USB3 input devices.
3. USB2.0 (High Speed) input devices are very rare beasts:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...ncy-mouse.html
Literally nothing to talk about.

>Fifth, Dan seems to be claiming that the latency in modern computers is partially coming from the components between the screen & input devices.
Yes, of course.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...precision.html
But don't trust all that you will read there :
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post25575037
My dialog with HAGGARD and VolsAndJezuz

>Sixth, anyone here overclocking to 2000Hz+ on Linux?
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post24912343
and my answers below

>Seventh, do you know if you can overclock the polling rate of an Apple magic trackpad - or any other top trackpads? I've had trouble finding any info on increasing the polling rate of trackpads.
RTFM once again - what can be overclocked.

and JFYI:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post28122028
Good reading about "latency".

P.S. Good post for links to it

Last edited by SweetLow; 11-02-2019 at 04:39 AM.
SweetLow is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #674 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 06:40 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
click4dylan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 92
Rep: 4 (Unique: 3)
Is there any way to get > 1000 Hz working on Windows 7? I can only get 1000Hz working but no more
click4dylan is offline  
post #675 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 02:54 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 3
Rep: 0
Quote: Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post
First of all, the low latency for the clicks has very low importance. Much more important is low dispersion. And luckily overclocking reduces the last.

>Secondly, there are claims of optical keyboard switches being the lowest latency.
Right hardware has zero latency in any case:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post24927320
My dialog with M1st.

>Fourthly, is there any evidence USB4 will bring lower latency? I haven't seen any.
1. There is no such thing as USB4. At all.
2. There is no such thing as USB3 input devices.
3. USB2.0 (High Speed) input devices are very rare beasts:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...ncy-mouse.html
Literally nothing to talk about.

>Fifth, Dan seems to be claiming that the latency in modern computers is partially coming from the components between the screen & input devices.
Yes, of course.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...precision.html
But don't trust all that you will read there :
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post25575037
My dialog with HAGGARD and VolsAndJezuz

>Sixth, anyone here overclocking to 2000Hz+ on Linux?
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post24912343
and my answers below

>Seventh, do you know if you can overclock the polling rate of an Apple magic trackpad - or any other top trackpads? I've had trouble finding any info on increasing the polling rate of trackpads.
RTFM once again - what can be overclocked.

and JFYI:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post28122028
Good reading about "latency".

P.S. Good post for links to it
Thanks for that! For optical switch latency, I was talking about keyboards, not mice... Same situation as mice? Should I switch my mechanical keyboard switches for optimal ones?

After a bit more research, it seems like: if we used the lowest latency components, then 90+% of the latency will actually come from the display itself. Would you agree?
CRTs don't seem to have this problem, so should we be able to demonstrate <5ms of latency from hand to display using a CRT? It is unfortunate that so much latency was introduced in the obsoletion of CRTs!

Finding VA and IPS displays that run at 250hz and look good enough to be worth it are still hard to find.
1ms_hand2eye is offline  
post #676 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
SweetLow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 469
Rep: 54 (Unique: 30)
Quote: Originally Posted by click4dylan View Post
Is there any way to get > 1000 Hz working on Windows 7? I can only get 1000Hz working but no more
Yes in general. BUT!
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post24847533
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post24849961
https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post25457764
The last offer is still actual
And yes, i found the point that allows Low to Full Speed overclocking (in intel driver, of course) since. But not the Low&Full to High, so now it is impossible still.
SweetLow is offline  
post #677 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
SweetLow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 469
Rep: 54 (Unique: 30)
Quote: Originally Posted by 1ms_hand2eye View Post
Thanks for that! For optical switch latency, I was talking about keyboards, not mice... Same situation as mice? Should I switch my mechanical keyboard switches for optimal ones?

After a bit more research, it seems like: if we used the lowest latency components, then 90+% of the latency will actually come from the display itself. Would you agree?
CRTs don't seem to have this problem, so should we be able to demonstrate <5ms of latency from hand to display using a CRT? It is unfortunate that so much latency was introduced in the obsoletion of CRTs!

Finding VA and IPS displays that run at 250hz and look good enough to be worth it are still hard to find.
>For optical switch latency, I was talking about keyboards, not mice
And i was talking about input devices as whole.

>if we used the lowest latency components, then 90+% of the latency will actually come from the display itself
I can clarify - all important latency came from display (if you exclude network latencies in some cases). But not display itself only but display subsystem.

>CRTs don't seem to have this problem,
Of course they have some latency. It usually is less than LCD on equal rate but non zero in any case.

>so should we be able to demonstrate <5ms of latency from hand to display using a CRT?
No (except allowing tearing in some cases).

P.S. Display latencies are definitely off topic for this thread, IMHO.
SweetLow is offline  
post #678 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 06:03 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Nilizum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 764
Rep: 73 (Unique: 58)
I just want to chime in here that some games don't like polling rates that are too high. Destiny 2 did not like 1000hz. Had to set it to 500. Outer Worlds did not like 1000hz, had to set it to 500. Some games (forgot names) reported to have 250hz as stable. Data loss in terms of movement tracked being skipped happens in those cases. I will say that 1000hz does look a bit smoother than 500hz on a high refresh rate panel (240), but high polling rate is not worth the sacrifice of stability in my experience.

The best thing anyone can do is physically measure the effects of their polling rates on different game environments to see if a higher polling rate is detrimental or not to their tracking before jumping on the high polling rate bandwagon.
Nilizum is offline  
post #679 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 06:06 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
NDUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 41
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by Nilizum View Post
[game] did not like 1000hz. Had to set it to 500.
what are you referring to specifically? what adverse outcome happened when the polling rate was set to 1000hz in these games? i've played both of them with 1000hz mice and experienced no issues
NDUS is offline  
post #680 of 688 (permalink) Old 11-28-2019, 02:32 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
SweetLow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 469
Rep: 54 (Unique: 30)
Well, yesterday was solved the mysterious (for me) problem when hidusbfp.sys loading through atsiv give no results when visually all looks like equal to success. As i expected the answer is so simple that i never realized that somebody can make such simple mistake - try to load hidusbfp.sys for different processor architecture, i.e. x86 version for x64 processor&OS for example. But this is real.
Unfortunately the error messages from atsiv.exe are identical in both cases (right and wrong).
Problem can be solved. I can rewrite hidusbfp so it will return real success instead of predefined error but in this case it must be unloaded by atsiv explicitly after loading or hidusbfp remains in memory. Of course, this is not the big problem. I can say this is not problem at all - but reread the beginning of the post!
And JFYI:
32, x86, IA-32, i386, i686 - this is synonyms in the world of Wintel and defines "32 bit Intel compatible processor"
64(now, as Itanium is dead), x64, x86-64, AMD64, EM64T - ... defines "64 bit AMD compatible processor working on 64 bit OS"
Why did i choose "AMD64" for the last one? Because Microsoft chose exactly that.
P.S. The lesson (once again) for me is simple (and well known for any teacher): something obvious to you is not obvious to someone else.
SweetLow is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off