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post #351 of 370 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 02:10 AM
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I didn't read everything so maybe it had already been say, if not it might interest some of you !

I came accross this software when I bought my Bloody keyboard. It's named "KeyResponse PK"

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In the intense gameplay, millisecond often determines the winner. You may not know how long it will take the computer receives the data after pressing the key of your mouse or keyboard. This time delay is commonly known as "Key response". This software is particularly made for the gamers. Through the simple PK face, gamers may explore the truth of the real key response of the gaming mouse and keyboard. Besides, gamers also may get full understanding of the key design difference from the dartboard explaination so as to avoid spending lots of money but obtaining the low response inferior products.
It works both with mouse and keyboard and it's available here :

https://www.bloody.com/en/download.php?id=6

I didn't test it yet but I think it worth to give it a try
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post #352 of 370 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 05:22 AM
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So what's the methodology here when testing mice? Cause for the most part, most software have button response features such as my mizar that has click response time settings from 250us to 32ms but it might not work unless Lock OS settings is checked, and my corsair mice have something a bit different, but doesn't mention response time.

Also there are different versions of the Corsair Sabre. A 6400dpi version and a 10kdpi version, what are the differences between the two? Mine came with firmware v2.04.
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post #353 of 370 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 12:03 PM
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What's the difference between "click latency" and "response time (debounce time)" on mice? I honestly can't find a straight answer... Some people here on my country keep claiming that Logitech mice have the "fastest clicks" and a BUNCH of people are mad about double clicks, but seeing this chart shows that even Ventus R are "faster"... So the Ventus R have low click latency and high debounce time?.. So, rapid fire is "slower" but "sniping" is faster?
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post #354 of 370 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by daniloberserk View Post
What's the difference between "click latency" and "response time (debounce time)" on mice? I honestly can't find a straight answer... Some people here on my country keep claiming that Logitech mice have the "fastest clicks" and a BUNCH of people are mad about double clicks, but seeing this chart shows that even Ventus R are "faster"... So the Ventus R have low click latency and high debounce time?.. So, rapid fire is "slower" but "sniping" is faster?
Same thing essentially. The higher the debounce the higher the click latency, and it reduces the chance of accidental double clicks.
E.g: I've measured about 11.8 ms click latency on the Model O on 10 ms debounce, and 4.1 ms on the 4 ms setting.

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post #355 of 370 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 12:51 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by daniloberserk View Post
What's the difference between "click latency" and "response time (debounce time)" on mice? I honestly can't find a straight answer... Some people here on my country keep claiming that Logitech mice have the "fastest clicks" and a BUNCH of people are mad about double clicks, but seeing this chart shows that even Ventus R are "faster"... So the Ventus R have low click latency and high debounce time?.. So, rapid fire is "slower" but "sniping" is faster?
Click latency is the time from when you physically press the button to when the computer recognizes that the button has been pressed.

Things that contribute to click latency are the mechanical travel of the switch, how frequently the microcontroller checks the state of the switch, debounce delay, USB polling interval, and how often the program you're using checks for input events.

There are many different ways to implement software debouncing, if a mouse has a lower latency than its debounce time, it's most likely using different values for press vs release. Other options are averaging out several samples, or waiting until you have x number of samples that are the same value.

Or if you hook up the NC contact of your switch, you can completely get rid of debounce delay.

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post #356 of 370 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by vanir1337 View Post
Same thing essentially. The higher the debounce the higher the click latency, and it reduces the chance of accidental double clicks.
E.g: I've measured about 11.8 ms click latency on the Model O on 10 ms debounce, and 4.1 ms on the 4 ms setting.
Quote: Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post
Click latency is the time from when you physically press the button to when the computer recognizes that the button has been pressed.

Things that contribute to click latency are the mechanical travel of the switch, how frequently the microcontroller checks the state of the switch, debounce delay, USB polling interval, and how often the program you're using checks for input events.

There are many different ways to implement software debouncing, if a mouse has a lower latency than its debounce time, it's most likely using different values for press vs release. Other options are averaging out several samples, or waiting until you have x number of samples that are the same value.

Or if you hook up the NC contact of your switch, you can completely get rid of debounce delay.
Thank you very much guys for clarifying this! But then.. Why the Ventus R have 2.4ms~ click lattency on the chart when the fastest option in the software is 4ms? I don't see the point going for extra low debounce times since no one can rapid fire so fast to justify 10ms~... But I do see a point going for lower click latency.

If everything is tied together.. Then things is more complicated then I thought.

Still, Logitech isn't the "fastest click in the west".

Last edited by daniloberserk; 06-04-2019 at 01:35 PM.
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post #357 of 370 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 02:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by daniloberserk View Post
Why the Ventus R have 2.4ms~ click lattency on the chart when the fastest option in the software is 4ms?
See what TranquilTempest wrote: debounce isn't the only thing affecting the measurable click latency. It's set to 4 ms by the firmware, but the other factors are different than on a bunch of other mice in the list, hence the faster overall response time.
Tbh anything below ~10 ms is negligible anyways.

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post #358 of 370 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 06:18 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by vanir1337 View Post
See what TranquilTempest wrote: debounce isn't the only thing affecting the measurable click latency. It's set to 4 ms by the firmware, but the other factors are different than on a bunch of other mice in the list, hence the faster overall response time.
Tbh anything below ~10 ms is negligible anyways.
I still think this is quite confusing... So, a mouse can have a click delay (button press) like 1ms (ignoring the travel time), but could have like 10ms for button release? Different values for different events?

Here on my country people says that Logitech mice have problems with double clicks because the debounce time is way to low. Isn't debounce time related only for button release? http://www.ganssle.com/images/debounceswitchq.jpg
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post #359 of 370 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:57 AM
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ROCCAT Kova AIMO +7.1 ms
ROCCAT Kain 120 +3.2 ms

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post #360 of 370 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 10:17 PM
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G305 vs Razer Jugan - The smallest delta was 0.9ms, with g305 always winning. I'd say most of the time the difference was 1-3ms.
G305 vs Steelseries Kinzu v2 - The smallest delta was 18.9ms, with g305 always winning. I'd say most of the time the difference was 22ms.

Which value do you take? an average, or smallest delta?

Using my numbers, and Kinzu v2= 25.2ms
Razer Jugan - 7.2ms~ (same as abyssus v1, which is 7.1ms)
G305 - 6.3ms~

Seems to line up.

Last edited by XeaL337; 07-09-2019 at 10:26 PM.
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