Let's get Microsoft WMO and Zowie Divina married ! - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

Let's get Microsoft WMO and Zowie Divina married !

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Gordon59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
Good luck.
I'm not really a mouse guy, I can be happy with about anything that works well and has a good sensor so I don't follow this stuff much but as a blacksmith, welder and carpenter I have a knack for modified things. That being said, wouldn't it be much easier to 3D print a new bottom for the MS with a PCB tray for the Zowie? You'd need to position them just right so that the scroll wheel would be in the right spot but it's probably not too difficult since it looks like there's a good bit of free space in there.
FYI there are lots of 3D printers for hire which can make you parts for a few bucks.
It will not work because of the way the click buttons are designs. For the zowie the plastic parts who press the switches are backward while WMO's ones are forward. So I need to either redesign the buttons from the WMO case or the PCB to work with it. I choose the pcb because I want something clean, and modding plastic is not really clean plus I think the WMO feels great because the switch are forward just under the tip of your finger, I want to preserve that too !

See the attach pictures
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	button.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	633.0 KB
ID:	264238  

Gordon59 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:14 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
gipetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 472
Rep: 9 (Unique: 7)
most of the old optical detectors are discontinued now as they are not used in new designs, but PT2559B could be compatible, if it is using ordinary gray codes.
gipetto is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Gordon59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by gipetto View Post
most of the old optical detectors are discontinued now as they are not used in new designs, but PT2559B could be compatible, if it is using ordinary gray codes.
Nice catch ! I just desoldered everything on the WMO switch board and that's pretty much the same design and sizes !

BTW just updated the main post !
Gordon59 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 07:33 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1
Rep: 0
Hi, a Chinese wmo & zowie mouse enthusiast here, i'm really interested in your project.


As whiteowl mention 3D printing a PCB tray, there is someone in China have done a 3D print wmo project:

https://bbs.wstx.com/thread-817679-1-1.html (it's is a China PC peripherals forum), which is a sensei310 pcb + wmo 3d print shape with drilling holes.


Hope this link would help you, if you need more detail i can translate for you
jex555 is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Gordon59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by jex555 View Post
Hi, a Chinese wmo & zowie mouse enthusiast here, i'm really interested in your project.


As whiteowl mention 3D printing a PCB tray, there is someone in China have done a 3D print wmo project:

https://bbs.wstx.com/thread-817679-1-1.html (it's is a China PC peripherals forum), which is a sensei310 pcb + wmo 3d print shape with drilling holes.


Hope this link would help you, if you need more detail i can translate for you
I'm really happy that my love for this mouse is shared ! I made a lot of progress since, I just updated the original post adding the last bit of work i've done so far.


I think I'm pretty close, there's only few thing I need to check before sending to the factory for production !

1- I'm really suspicious about this part of the schematic.

I don't understand what this resistor is doing. It is connected to the ground and to a track going from the IR receiver for the schroll well to the connector.

Maybe it's suppose to get the power to the ground when the schroll well don't need power but I'm not sure at all. If someone could help me about that ?



2- I will need to figured out a way to print the PCB on a stiff surface to check that all the holes are correctly placed.

If you have any opinions about that please give your feedbacks !
Gordon59 is offline  
post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 01:52 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
gipetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 472
Rep: 9 (Unique: 7)
Here's the diagram that zowie cloned, though from what I can see zowie doesn't modulate the wheel led, to cut out noise and interference from sunlight. those 2 resistors on emitter A and B look like pulldowns, because the optical detector sources current to the mcu instead of sinking it like a mechanical encoder with pullups would.

1K seems far too low, from my experiments you would need 50K or so in order not to burn out the detector.

also the wheel led resistor should be around 5K

https://www.colinfahey.com/ps2_mouse..._computer.html

when I was doing my pcb in fritzing, I measured the old pcb against a piece of stripboard, by counting holes vs the stripboard in the library. It came out perfectly, not sure if that technique is possible in kicad or whatever you are using.

Last edited by gipetto; 04-22-2019 at 01:59 AM.
gipetto is offline  
post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Gordon59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by gipetto View Post
Here's the diagram that zowie cloned, though from what I can see zowie doesn't modulate the wheel led, to cut out noise and interference from sunlight. those 2 resistors on emitter A and B look like pulldowns, because the optical detector sources current to the mcu instead of sinking it like a mechanical encoder with pullups would.

1K seems far too low, from my experiments you would need 50K or so in order not to burn out the detector.

also the wheel led resistor should be around 5K

https://www.colinfahey.com/ps2_mouse..._computer.html

when I was doing my pcb in fritzing, I measured the old pcb against a piece of stripboard, by counting holes vs the stripboard in the library. It came out perfectly, not sure if that technique is possible in kicad or whatever you are using.

I've two types of resistor 103 and 132. As I said I don't know much about electronics so basically I'm just cloning zowie's pcb.

So for you my schematics seems correct (except the reference numbers for part, which I know are wrong) ?
Gordon59 is offline  
post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 04:54 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
gipetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 472
Rep: 9 (Unique: 7)
It has been a while since I read smt, I used to have a cheat pdf with common values. I thought 103 was 1K but it is actually 10k, anyway 503 would be safer to use , that's 50Kohms for the pulldowns.

https://www.uchobby.com/index.php/20...ic-components/

the led detector might work at that 1300 ohm value but to be safe, I would use 10k, or 1002 in surface mount code, which is the same as in the intellimouse circuit diagram.
edited because i confused the detector in the schematic

I did a similar project before with a teensy 2.0 except I couldn't stop the wheel detectors from dying through overcurrent, even with series resistors to protect the detector(In your schematic there are no series resistors). According to the datasheet once 4ma is exceeded the wheel detectors get shorted and die quickly. So although I have the most experience in this thread I still am none the wiser. In theory duplicating the pcb exactly should work, but one major problem is you don't know exactly what detector is used. I wrote about my failures here:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375-...l#post27928348

Maybe the mcu zowie uses only sinks 2ma per pin, compared to the teensy 2.0's 40ma, if that were the case there would be no problem. I will leave it up to you to find zowies mcu datasheet.

You should prototype the circuit on some stripboard or by freehand even to test it before ordering a pcb, to keep cost down.

you used the symbol for photo detector for the led in your schematic, that must be fixed. emitter A should have a 10K resistor in series, before the pulldown, same as the intellimouse schematic. Then do the same for emitter B

edit, found the datasheet for the 3310 zowies, mcu pullups are 5.6k, I guess that's why it is rare for zowies to develop doubleclick. i/o pin current ranges from -25ma to 50ma max, so somewhat similar to the teensy 2.0

https://www.cypress.com/file/134346/download
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	zowiepcbforwmo-schematic-question.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	39.2 KB
ID:	266258  


Last edited by gipetto; 04-22-2019 at 08:39 AM.
gipetto is offline  
post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 07:11 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
TranquilTempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,640
Rep: 77 (Unique: 62)
The resistor circled in red is 7.87k, according to the part number listed next to it. Doesn't make a lot of sense with a 10k resistor in series though, unless the MCU wants 2.2v on the input when the phototransistor is fully on, and the high side of the phototransistor is 5v. Using a value up to 20k probably won't damage anything , but definitely don't go over 30k, that could fry the microcontroller if it's running on 3.3v(probably not with 10k in series, but it's still over the maximum ratings). If you increase the value, you'll be making the detector more sensitive(may cause issues with internal reflections or external light). If you go much lower than the current value it probably won't detect anything even if you short the phototransistor.


Last edited by TranquilTempest; 04-24-2019 at 07:17 PM.
TranquilTempest is offline  
post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 01:57 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Gordon59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 29
Rep: 1 (Unique: 1)
Quote: Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post
The resistor circled in red is 7.87k, according to the part number listed next to it. Doesn't make a lot of sense with a 10k resistor in series though, unless the MCU wants 2.2v on the input when the phototransistor is fully on, and the high side of the phototransistor is 5v. Using a value up to 20k probably won't damage anything , but definitely don't go over 30k, that could fry the microcontroller if it's running on 3.3v(probably not with 10k in series, but it's still over the maximum ratings). If you increase the value, you'll be making the detector more sensitive(may cause issues with internal reflections or external light). If you go much lower than the current value it probably won't detect anything even if you short the phototransistor.
Sorry I said on a previous post that the references for the parts were not correct, but I didnt make it enought clear

I mainly use it for having the correct footprint and I didnt take care of the schematic meanings...

Now I had a bit of time to work on it, I updated the schematic with the correct references. It should be more logical now. Thank you for your help.

Gordon59 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off