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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Wide mice

I use both my left and wight hand for work, and I am strictly right-handed in games. I play equally well (or bad depending on the point of view) with all grips, but I definitely prefer a relaxed palm grip, with partial contact. My hand width is almost 10.5 cm and the 60% rule yields 6.3 cm. It is a fairly large value for mouse width, and does not match the width of any of the mice I own, supporting the hypothesis that the permanent swelling and pain of my little finger could be caused by my attempts to keep it in contact with the right side of the mouse. Moreover, although I own mice of all sizes, all my mice either are not tall enough, or do not give enough support for the right half of my hand, thereby increasing the perceived "excess length" of my little finger.

I don't understand why ergonomic shapes are, in their right part, just shapes which drastically taper from bottom to top, and with a slight outward right curve along the major axis. That design is way too cautious to give some support to players with a hand width significantly greater than 10.

In one of his reviews, MM530, RJN says the mouse "goes out with a rest for the little finger" and that is makes sense for "people who haven't adjusted their grip to go further inward". Well I definitely have failed to do that for all my mice, and, while I am not surprised the FK2 caused my little finger to hurt, I really hoped that buying larger mice would have solved the problem but it wasn't the case.

Last item in the list of failures is the otherwise exceptionally good Rival 600, which would be the perfect mouse for me if it gave me more support for the right half of my hand; being my main game mouse now, I have to choose between bending my little finger more, or letting it rub against the mat. Either choice does not help me reduce my inflammation. Unless I hold the mouse slightly sideways; that's a cheap way of making a mouse feel larger over all, extend my little finger more, and raise its tip from the mat. Does this mean that is the way to hold a mouse? I don't think so. Interestingly, the Deathadder shape automatically promotes that type of nonorthogonal grip and in fact it is probably the most comfortable mouse I own. Unfortunately I bought the left handed version for work only and I don't know if the right-handed version would stand the test of long gaming sessions.

Mice I haven't tried are the previous iterations of the Rival, the above mentioned MM530/531, and the Mamba Elite. And, of course, the MMO/RPG shapes like Spawn/MM520 and Naga. These can however be rather flat and short.

If you have experienced the same problems I have, I'd be very happy to read your comments and suggestions.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 11:36 AM
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I'd say start by getting a block of oven hardening clay, and sculpting something that feels good. Now you know what to look for.

If you can't find anything like that, you can make your own shell with either 3d printing or vacuum forming.

Also, completely ignore RJN's rules/shape recommendations.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 04:09 AM
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The widest I ever found was the FUNC MS-3 Rev 2. Its out of production and Laser mouse but maybe someone here has one to sell or know of a clone. Second option would be the Mionix NAOS QG or DM Comfy mouse same ship diff makers both have the same sensor

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post
I'd say start by getting a block of oven hardening clay, and sculpting something that feels good. Now you know what to look for.

If you can't find anything like that, you can make your own shell with either 3d printing or vacuum forming.

Also, completely ignore RJN's rules/shape recommendations.
Why are his reccomandations bad? What do u reccomend then? Say if I have a 18 by 8 cm hand
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:29 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Wvyvern View Post
Why are his reccomandations bad? What do u reccomend then? Say if I have a 18 by 8 cm hand
His recommendations are good if and only if you happen to have the exact same hand shape and grip that he does. Mice are kind of like gloves, you might be able to find some that are usable just based on size, but to find something that fits really well, you'll probably have to try dozens of mice, modify something close, or make something custom.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:33 PM
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I always fly the little finger, no mouse is wide enough even the IE3.0 etc. especially with overall large adult male hand most mice are tiny. Hold side of mouse with thumb and ring finger. I've used IE3.0 for over a decade, there is a newer replacement now with a decent sensor, tried many other mice and none were good enough in terms of quality and shape+size, until G403 and while it's a smaller mouse it is better shaped in some ways than IE3.0.

Grip hybrid = fingers + knuckles and little finger either on mat for small movements with precision or mid air for large movements. Relaxed grip except when you lift up the pinky, but I haven't had issue with that yet and there is no usable mouse where I could keep pinky on it.

For a medium sized hand <20cm this may seem a weird grip since people are then used to being able to put all fingers on larger mice. Or they cramp their hand on the mouse like crazy with bent fingers.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 01:25 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
I always fly the little finger, no mouse is wide enough even the IE3.0 etc. especially with overall large adult male hand most mice are tiny. Hold side of mouse with thumb and ring finger. I've used IE3.0 for over a decade, there is a newer replacement now with a decent sensor, tried many other mice and none were good enough in terms of quality and shape+size, until G403 and while it's a smaller mouse it is better shaped in some ways than IE3.0.

Grip hybrid = fingers + knuckles and little finger either on mat for small movements with precision or mid air for large movements. Relaxed grip except when you lift up the pinky, but I haven't had issue with that yet and there is no usable mouse where I could keep pinky on it.

For a medium sized hand <20cm this may seem a weird grip since people are then used to being able to put all fingers on larger mice. Or they cramp their hand on the mouse like crazy with bent fingers.
21cm long/10.5cm wide hands (i dont even consider my hands to be big, more like medium sized). I have done the same thing . In Palmgrip i always lay the hand flat on the mouse and hold it between thumb and ringfinger and my pinky is on the mousepad pushed against the ringfinger. I always wondered how people can put their pinky below their ringfinger and aim like that being accurate without getting cramps. A mouse has to be super high or like 8cm wide for me to do that. Am i weird?
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 03:14 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by James N View Post
21cm long/10.5cm wide hands (i dont even consider my hands to be big, more like medium sized)
They are big though. Average is 18-19 cm.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 06:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by James N View Post
21cm long/10.5cm wide hands (i dont even consider my hands to be big, more like medium sized). I have done the same thing . In Palmgrip i always lay the hand flat on the mouse and hold it between thumb and ringfinger and my pinky is on the mousepad pushed against the ringfinger. I always wondered how people can put their pinky below their ringfinger and aim like that being accurate without getting cramps. A mouse has to be super high or like 8cm wide for me to do that. Am i weird?

Not weird, I would also need a super high or super wide mouse to be able to put pinky on mouse, there is no space for it. Worst mice are the ergonomic ones with grooves that force a specific grip, it only fits one hand the hand it was made with, they may be wide but they are bad.

Another thing we still don't get either is mouse with buttons for ring and pinky finger But damn would that mouse be wide to do that. Until 30th century we will be stuck with a mouse design from 1990s. Hey at least we got side buttons in the 2000s and sensors no longer suck much past 2010.

Funny, if 18-19cm is average then most largest mice are made for average hand. Overall I think most mice are targeted at smaller teenage and Asian hands.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 06:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Not weird, I would also need a super high or super wide mouse to be able to put pinky on mouse, there is no space for it. Worst mice are the ergonomic ones with grooves that force a specific grip, it only fits one hand the hand it was made with, they may be wide but they are bad.

Another thing we still don't get either is mouse with buttons for ring and pinky finger But damn would that mouse be wide to do that. Until 30th century we will be stuck with a mouse design from 1990s. Hey at least we got side buttons in the 2000s and sensors no longer suck much past 2010.

Funny, if 18-19cm is average then most largest mice are made for average hand. Overall I think most mice are targeted at smaller teenage and Asian hands.
Oh yea, mice that force a specific grip on you don't work for me at all. I can only ever use mice that have clean neutral designs. I guess it helps that i use clawgrip in some games. Since for clawgrip i can use medium sized mice and it works out for me. But trying to find a mouse for a relaxed palm grip is a struggle. Good to know that i am not the only one being forced into the thumb ringfinger pinchpalmgrip.
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