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The most complex and elusive PC/Hardware issue I have ever encountered. Mouse/Keyboard input lag related

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post #11 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 07:40 PM
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@OP

FWIW:

I too had some really awful lag that I perceived as a mouse issue. Turned out that my multi-monitor setup had each particular monitor set to various refresh rates between them (3 monitors). Once I set them all to 60hz (two on top, one on bottom as my main) - my input lag/slow mouse response was resolved.

I did not read everything, skimmed through and just wanted to put this out there. FWIW. :-)

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post #12 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 07:43 PM
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poltergeist. no fortnite for you!

also, if you're on wifi... have you tried just plugging it in? though not sure how that would affect DPI in windows? maybe in a game during a latency spike
.
gaming on wifi = still stupid, even if your motherboard came with "WIFI GAMING ZOOOMIES FTW!" edition wifi card.

next thing we know you'll be telling us your neighbors are sneaking into your house at night while you sleep to nerf your DPI.

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Best R0ach Quote of all time : TLDR: Haswell might be the last legit gaming platform unless mice get their own non-USB interface on some newer architecture.
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post #13 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I am using only one monitor, in single display performance mode (tried the other modes). I play with ethernet connected, if you read my post I mentioned the entire homes wifi behaves poorly- on laptops, phones all devices.
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post #14 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 08:21 PM
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Right off the bat... I believe you. I have spent the last year working on problems of my own and just now after a year of fiddling do I feel like I have completely figured things out... lol.

The differing mouse feel all the time and being able to manipulate it and change the feel by doing random things like you explained is exactly what I was experiencing. For me it was a lot of swapping USB devices to different ports, using USB hubs, only using a single monitor instead of 2, moving mouse cables away from LED lighting (I have some Philips Hue stuff at my desk) etc etc the list goes on. I can tell you now, some of that stuff was helpful, some of it was not. To me right away it sounds you have or had a power issue like I did. For me it became plain as day that MY particular issue was power related because I was able to manipulate my aim feel by turning my ceiling fan on and off (weird right?). My ceiling fan has 3 speeds and the mouse feel would change on each of the 3 settings, lol. I was never able to build muscle memory in games because my damn aim feel was changing every day so it was ridiculous. You said you tried a bunch of different power conditioners but those don't really do much... you are basically spraying Febreeze on a pile of poo. The only thing that would completely solve a power issue is something like a double-conversion UPS power supply because it completely isolates your devices from your dirty/messed up house power.

HOWEVER, you just said that you moved houses and still experience the same issues? That kind of puts some doubts in that theory then because the likelihood of having messed up power in your second place? Ehhh I don't know. I would only recommend the double-conversion UPS route to someone who isn't planning on moving houses anytime soon And even then... if power wasn't your issue then a double-conversion UPS won't do crap for you and you are out some money... so it's risky. For me, I didn't care because when I realized my ceiling fan was able to manipulate my aim feel I knew it had to be an electricity issue.

Now you also started talking about stuff like your internet browser videos twitching here and there and all sorts of other stuff. It's not necessarily one thing like electricity that is causing your problems. Browser issues like that could be as simple as turning off "hardware acceleration" in Google Chrome because sometimes Chrome is dog poo. It sounds to me like you have a variety of different causes for your problems and you can't blame them all on one thing like electricity. USB devices can be another thing that cause issues I found. Plugging all your devices into a big USB hub... some USB devices might not get along with the other devices in the chain causing things like ground loops like you mentioned. Figuring it all out takes hours and hours of experimenting (like I said I was at it for like a year ). Are these devices powered via AC adapter, are they bus-powered? You have to think about all that stuff and think of possibilities where you might me introducing ground loops into your system. Lot's of different possibilities that I can't think of off the top of my head but they will come to me and I will update later.


Last edited by gunit2004; 11-17-2019 at 08:24 PM.
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post #15 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate you chiming in with your experiences. The fan speed settings definitely something that sounds familiar as I have seen some bizarre stuff like that. Two people I know that have identical issues to us have purchased double conversion UPS said they help abit but do not fix the issue which kind of rules out the "dirty power". My guess is that some part of my PC is damaged causing these issues as moving locations did nothing. So im assuming you did not ever solve yours? I mention the other wifi issues etc as I believe it could be related.
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post #16 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by essanbee View Post
Incandescent and LED bulbs can effect your wifi router. Any unshielded wiring really.



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post #17 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 09:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CrucialNUG View Post
I appreciate you chiming in with your experiences. The fan speed settings definitely something that sounds familiar as I have seen some bizarre stuff like that. Two people I know that have identical issues to us have purchased double conversion UPS said they help abit but do not fix the issue which kind of rules out the "dirty power". My guess is that some part of my PC is damaged causing these issues as moving locations did nothing. So im assuming you did not ever solve yours? I mention the other wifi issues etc as I believe it could be related.
Mine is pretty much completely solved.. that's what I meant in my post. The original problem I had is gone.. my aim feels normal, stabilized and consistent every day. Just that along the way, I discovered a million different ways you can "adjust" your aim feel if that makes sense. Just when you think you have the best setup possible, you learn something else about your system lol.

For example, while I was trying to solve my original problem, I ended up trying a lot of different things like using a single monitor only. After fixing my original problem (which I found in the end wasn't related to running a single monitor at all) I started reversing some of the changes I made in my system. I began using my 2nd monitor again, but did notice that it made my aim feel worse. It wasn't bringing back my original problem or anything like that... I just noticed I played much better on a single monitor and the having the 2nd one activated as well made my aim feel kind of sluggish. I figured maybe it's a good idea to off the load of running a 2nd monitor onto the integrated graphics of my I7-8700K since it was just sitting there deactivated and not being used. So I plugged my 2nd monitor into that instead (via HDMI by the way, which was another requirement apparently, because Displayport did introduce some funky aim feel once again similar to me just running the 2nd monitor straight to my GPU (ASUS 1080ti). So I recently found that running my extra monitors (an ASUS PB278Q 1440P for general desktop use & a Sony 1080P TV) via HDMI made it so my aim felt exactly the same, whether I have 1 monitor on, 2 or even 3 (which I never do anyways, lol). The only one on Displayport is my 240hz ASUS PG258Q. I should honestly write a guide of all the things I learned along my long journey Some of the stuff came from the "polling rate precision" thread that is floating around here on OC.net like IRQ priorities & devices on MSI mode etc. Once you get into all this crap it's like it becomes an obsession and you spend more time fiddling around then actually gaming but I think I've finally reached that point where theres no further improvements to be made and I can just forget about it finally

EDIT: And your typical person will look at a system and even if it has great amazing specs and should be able to run something like 2 monitors no problem whatsoever blah blah blah... it's not always that simple.

EDIT #2: Also read more of your post that I kind of glossed over before but your WiFi/Ethernet issue reminded me of something I ran into when I got my double-conversion UPS. Since I was feeling assured that my power related issues were gone, at the time I was just narrowing things down since I felt there was still improvement to be made. One of the things I had thought of as well as a source of "interference" was the ethernet cable (considered basically every cord going into the back of my PC, really). My way of easily A-B testing it to see whether it would make a difference to aim feel at all was unplugging it and using my PC's built in Wifi card for internet instead. I mean... any electrical interference would be eliminated via Wifi! Makes logical sense lol.... not that I ever intended to run permanently on Wifi... wifi is freaking awful for gaming but it would help me understand the issue more. Sure enough, running off Wifi and removing the ethernet cable from the back of my PC made my aim feel DRASTICALLY better. So from there I went down the ethernet cable and the chain of stuff connected to that, wondering who could be the culprit. The ethernet cable from my PC went to my internet modem... my internet modem was connected to an 2-outlet extension cord that went to my new UPS for power (the extension cord was just convenient for where my modem was located). The 2nd outlet on this extension cable was powering a Philips Hue bridge (a network device for LED lights) and this bridge was also connected to my internet modem. That's when it occurred to me that the Philips Hue bridge, sharing power with my internet modem on this extension cable and also being linked all together via ethernet cables was probably causing some weird ground loop issue or something. I eliminated the Philips Hue bridge from the chain so only the internet modem was being powered via the extension cable and VOILA... I could now plug an ethernet cable from my internet modem to the PC with no input lag issues at all. My workaround for the Philips Hue bridge was just throwing it onto a wireless bridge on the other side of the house so it could just get a network connection that way... lol. Moral of the story is... there is A LOT of things you could be overlooking that are causing your issues... not just one or two. I could write a novel on all this crap.


Last edited by gunit2004; 11-17-2019 at 11:30 PM.
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post #18 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 06:12 AM
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if you are not happy with behavior of multiple mice on multiple workstations under different installations of OS - the problem is in your expectations.
stop changing things, get used to the one setup that you have. there is no magic setting that will force all those environments to behave exactly the same.

when I was reading through your post I thought you are trolling
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post #19 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 06:22 AM
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Are you sure this isnt the standard windows 10 stutter issue that pops up every other GPU driver, random mouse stutters, video stutter etc. Maybe that's only been an issue for me because of the two different refresh rate monitors, I just know it doesnt like when I try to stream video in chrome and play games at the same time.. which is solved by turning off hardware acceleration in chrome. Windows 10 has been having intermittent mouse lag issues for people like right from the start, but its usually patched in one way or another for a while before it breaks again. I've also found some apps seem to at random cause mouse lag, then when shut down its all good again. Sticky Notes is real bad for it. Cortana and Realtek Audio have been known to cause mouse issues too at one point or another.. not sure if they're still causing those problems.

Also with your wifi issues.. how many devices are you running on 2.4ghz. They can even be interfered with by a running microwave. Even my LIFX light bulb flickers when the microwave is on. All im saying is WiFi always has weird behaviours and it probably has nothing to do with anything else.. just get a better router.. especially if you're running a lot of devices off it.. get dual band and run what you think you need to on 5ghz instead.

As for your mouse tracking differently.. idk that can happen just from a loose thread on the pad.. a crumb.. a slightly worn spot you cant even see. I really doubt your electrical wiring is causing that one.

Panthera
(14 items)
CPU
Ryzen 7 3700X
Motherboard
Gigabyte Aorus X570 Pro Wifi
GPU
Msi Gaming X Trio RTX 2080
RAM
16GB 3200CL14 G.skill Trident Z
Hard Drive
1TB Samsung 860 Evo
Power Supply
Corsair HX750 Platinum
Cooling
AMD Wraith Prism
Case
NZXT H700
Monitor
Acer Predator XB271HU G-sync 1440p165hz IPS
Keyboard
CoolerMaster MK730 TKL w/ Cherry Reds
Mouse
Logitech G703 Hero
Mousepad
Glorious Extended
Audio
Presonus Eris 3.5
Audio
Audio-Technica M50xBT
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by Lexi is Dumb; 11-18-2019 at 06:41 AM.
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post #20 of 431 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 09:53 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post
Severe wifi external interference

^This +1. Could even be a flourescent lightbulb near by.
My lamp behind my monitor made my monitor flash everytime i turned it off.. changed lamp output to different socket and it went away.

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