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The most complex and elusive PC/Hardware issue I have ever encountered. Mouse/Keyboard input lag related

 
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post #401 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:07 AM
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Okay, so you present an argument backed by facts. That's a good way to approach things.

But what is your argument driving towards? What does this have to do with PC's?

Maybe I'm daft but all I'm getting is that you present the idea computers need some sort of power filtering.

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post #402 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
Okay, so you present an argument backed by facts. That's a good way to approach things.

But what is your argument driving towards? What does this have to do with PC's?

Maybe I'm daft but all I'm getting is that you present the idea computers need some sort of power filtering.
Thanks for actually discussing this with some rationality, seems a rarity around here sometimes. The argument is driving towards the fact that a high impedance ground will produce the type of problems I have been talking about. This will undermine all filtering techniques so that the filters in your PSU, Power Conditioner, or UPS cannot do their job- shorting the interference to ground (which I might add, they are very very good at- when the grounding is good as well). This is only a problem for those of us whom notice these severe issues not for you folks whose PC works (for what I assume) and seems perfectly fine to you. I can think of one person on this site in particular here who seems to be completely misled on this topic. When I first created this thread it was to see if anyone out there had any ideas/advice on a remedy for my problems. Now that I have dialed in the root cause I just want to bring some awareness and clear things up for folks, as well as discuss solutions.

Just a dude trying to fix problems

Last edited by CrucialNUG; 02-21-2020 at 11:24 AM.
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post #403 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:26 AM
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To add to CrucialNUG's last post, Double-Conversion UPS, Furman Power Conditioners (or other AC filtering devices) only act on A/C input and not ground. So something like a isolating ground transformer might help but also keep in mind every component connected to your PC creates different paths to ground. (Router/Ethernet <-> PC <-> Monitor (VGA/Display/DVI) <-> Audio/Speaker systems) Pretty much the same problem audiophiles face with grounding issues when they connect a variety of devices that share different paths to ground, at least for ground specific issues that cause interference. Then there's more specific causes such as RFI/EMI which can relate.
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post #404 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:28 AM
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Ahh I see. Sounds like a very specific type of issue you discuss, no?

It's a generally accepted idea that power issues can cause all sorts of gremlins. Grounding issues are especially heinous in my experience.

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post #405 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Right those connections in between all the devices do matter but this is not a ground loop. It is merely the affect of a high impedance ground not allowing the RFI (that nearly all our devices create through standard operation) to flow through ground out of the system- instead they flow into our other devices and mess with normal operation. Yes I believe this is a rare problem to come by but more and more people seem to experience it.

Just a dude trying to fix problems

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post #406 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 12:23 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CrucialNUG View Post
Ignoring the mouse behaivor stuff, I observed many other things that pointed to problems here. Keyboard input lag, distorted sound, distorted visuals (blurry display when there was fast motion), comically bad screen tearing, graphical artifacts when cables were touching (video cables contacting other cables), rare and occasional full on stutters, and PC lockups (once when I plugged my laptop into the same outlet as my PC this happened and it did not fix itself for 4 days even after reformat, and discharging my PSU). I also noticed how it affected my Wifi and wired connection in interesting ways as well. Web pages load in, in blocks (certain parts of the page loading in slowly while others faster). And all of this behaivor varied sometimes randomly, sometimes in conjunction with the appliances and power draw in my home. If you recall early in this thread this guy saying the same:
all of this look very much documentable tbh
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post #407 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 01:07 PM
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He did document it and that is what he is sharing, measuring it and/or isolating cause has been challenging. Also that he and others have completely replaced all PC parts (PC 100%, mouse, keyboard, monitor, cables, you name it.) to try and resolve it without success, or isolating certain components (network, psu, power input), software configurations (regular OS install with defaults, minimal os/software install, low latency and power performance profiles) to see the effects.

Everything has lead to external influence which is repeatable by observation but the changes are still variable, doing the same change doesn't always give identical result but it does have influence in either case. It's mostly because we can't exactly see/understand what is being influenced. Several of the people impacted by this have invested in special tools such as high quality power filters or double conversion UPS with pure sine (essentially always on battery), EMF meters, and have consulted with some electrical engineers to see if they can give further guidance.

Based on certain tests that have more consistent positive influences it currently only seems logical that it's related to grounding, EMF/RFI.

Last edited by Timecard; 02-21-2020 at 01:11 PM.
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post #408 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by numberfive View Post
all of this look very much documentable tbh
Alright going forward I will record whatever stuff I can with my crappy phone camera. I will also post the documentation of just some of the symptoms people have caught on video here:

Here is a video I have got of the screen blur while scrolling on my laptop this is not what it looks like currently as the work they did at my neighbors made this problem better (it still varies throughout the day):


@Strongzera made this video, in it you may be able to notice the ability he has to control the camera is more sensitive in one than the other:

@erobuR made these videos showing the screen tearing and other related issues:

This guy on reddit got a similar video to TC's:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview..._fix_plz_help/

Yes many of these will be easy to write off if you do not want to take our word for it that we ruled every other possibility out. These videos are not even close to the most severe symptoms we have seen, just a few of the ones we have recorded. I will do my best to get the more severe stuff recorded and posted here. Each and every one of these videos I can relate to as I have seen all my computers show the same symptoms. It is not due to anything but the ground impedance issues.

Just a dude trying to fix problems

Last edited by CrucialNUG; 02-21-2020 at 02:18 PM.
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post #409 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 03:31 PM
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Here's my videos individually
(more normal feeling)
(slightly delayed feeling)
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post #410 of 550 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 03:42 PM
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i see the problem

win7!



jk jk.

seriously though, if the blur didn't exist on 7, then did on 10. i'd blame it on ancient display cables. but we've been thru all this already (yes, i've 100% seen cables that only work on XP, or 7, then blur on 8.1 or 10. was incredibly common when sunsetting 1,000 XP/7 machines a few years back. they tried to pinch all the pennies be reusing old wires)

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