Muh deadzone: Windows USB3 MSI mode driver the #1 destroyer of aim ever created - Page 5 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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Muh deadzone: Windows USB3 MSI mode driver the #1 destroyer of aim ever created

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post #41 of 112 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 01:20 PM
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I actually make sure I always have on the USB3.0 ports and XHCI. Pass-through (no xhci) feels horrible and the usb 2.0 ports on the Z77's are wonky and don't work correctly. The 2.0 ports feel somewhat delayed, like the cursor is always lagging behind my mouse, but it feels fine in games with raw input on.

Guess one could say I have a severe case of clown cursor.
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post #42 of 112 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 07:32 AM
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Just an idea, what if we plugged our keyboard into the second USB hub and switched it to MSI, leaving our mouse alone and line based? Would it improve mousemovement while still being able to enjoy 1000hz keyboard?

Last edited by klunka; 07-23-2020 at 08:54 AM.
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post #43 of 112 (permalink) Old 07-27-2020, 04:28 PM
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I'm observing the same behavior here.

I usually flick my mouse cursor over my (dark) taskbar (Made a habit out of it to remind myself there's some latency that I hate but could never pinpoint) because white and black is a slow pixel transition (G2G) and adds up to the total latency observed.

Disabling MSI mode on Intel XHCI controller made my cursor (and ingame) almost a 1:1 response.

This monitor's input to signal latency is also rated as <4ms and yet it felt way higher somehow, and I wasn't under the illusion that I could actually notice 4~ms if input to signal lag personally. But its pretty easy to move your mouse left to right, observe the cursor and see that both don't sync up. Definitely an improvement!

Strangely I don't think this is necessarily just an Intel issue as I observe the same latency with an Asmedia controller. (Never tried disabing MSI on that though)

Lots of placebo's around, but I'm pretty sure this might be some weird thing that prioritizes bandwidth over latency in regard to the usb controllers/win10 (Power saving and max bandwidth are basically the trend these days, and it usually always goes at the expense of latency.)
I'll admit I don't think most people will be able to tell, but for me my mouse response feels way more raw.

Maybe this is why I2C controller for Touchpad on my notebook is forced on emulated interrupt, they are already so damn laggy, MSI would make it worse ^^

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post #44 of 112 (permalink) Old 07-27-2020, 05:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by r0ach View Post
Right when USB3 first came out I always hated it because it felt less responsive than USB2. It had a deadzone that did not exist on the previous generation. I always thought it was the fault of the change to the architecture itself - adding more latency when they increased the bandwidth - turns out that wasn't it. Windows USB2 drivers use line based interrupt mode. Windows USB3 drivers use MSI mode by default.

For some reason over the span of years I never tested this before, but after manually forcing this Haswell boxes' USB3 controller to line based interrupt mode instead of it's MSI mode default, the deadzone is gone and responsiveness seems to be comparable to USB2 again.
Hey are you aware of this project intended to fix some of the issues with USB? They have modded drivers and a fairly good in depth explanation of the whats and whys surrounding drivers and USB. Link - https://www.win-raid.com/t834f25-USB...nd-modded.html And https://www.win-raid.com/f25-General...e-and-USB.html

They also dig into SATA and NVMe drivers and such. Lots of info there if you are interested in reading it over.

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post #45 of 112 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 03:18 PM
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yep deadzone. is this a controller?

"a bad joint can't be that bad right?" -q
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post #46 of 112 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 04:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by the1freeMan View Post
yep deadzone. is this a controller?
yes, how much does it affect on controller?

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post #47 of 112 (permalink) Old 07-29-2020, 06:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
yes, how much does it affect on controller?
777777777777777777777777777

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post #48 of 112 (permalink) Old 07-29-2020, 08:27 AM
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One thing I've observed with having a USB3 controller (mobo) and usb 2.0 pci-e card installed at the same time is that DPC is processed by both drivers when only using a single device in the USB 3.0 controller for example. This seems like wasted resources but I assume this is windows logic for dealing with both at once.
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post #49 of 112 (permalink) Old 08-03-2020, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Marctraider View Post
I'm observing the same behavior here.

I usually flick my mouse cursor over my (dark) taskbar (Made a habit out of it to remind myself there's some latency that I hate but could never pinpoint) because white and black is a slow pixel transition (G2G) and adds up to the total latency observed.

Disabling MSI mode on Intel XHCI controller made my cursor (and ingame) almost a 1:1 response.

This monitor's input to signal latency is also rated as <4ms and yet it felt way higher somehow, and I wasn't under the illusion that I could actually notice 4~ms if input to signal lag personally. But its pretty easy to move your mouse left to right, observe the cursor and see that both don't sync up. Definitely an improvement!

Strangely I don't think this is necessarily just an Intel issue as I observe the same latency with an Asmedia controller. (Never tried disabing MSI on that though)

Lots of placebo's around, but I'm pretty sure this might be some weird thing that prioritizes bandwidth over latency in regard to the usb controllers/win10 (Power saving and max bandwidth are basically the trend these days, and it usually always goes at the expense of latency.)
I'll admit I don't think most people will be able to tell, but for me my mouse response feels way more raw.

Maybe this is why I2C controller for Touchpad on my notebook is forced on emulated interrupt, they are already so damn laggy, MSI would make it worse ^^
I mainly posted this topic so people can see that MSI mode on USB 3.0 does make mouse movement more rubbery and less responsive feeling over USB 2.0 in line based mode. While turning MSI mode off did remove the floaty/unresponsive feeling of USB 3.0, it still feels off and inferior to using a native USB 2.0 controller.

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post #50 of 112 (permalink) Old 08-03-2020, 07:30 AM
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Yea, this is much better with MSI off. I'm wondering if there are still USB 2 Pci-e devices left for purchase, I'd love to try one.

Also so funny with people requiring proof without providing a way to test this. These are the same people who consider scientists the single conveyours of "Truth", which proves they know nothing about science. Most of our nervous system is basically a measuring device, but I guess that since they can't test this for themselves they have to have external proof.
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