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How to clean install a new mouse + 2 Windows USB bugs affecting most people

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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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How to clean install a new mouse + 2 Windows USB bugs affecting most people

I haven't gotten around to writing a guide about this issue, but if you read through the entire post, you'll see this contains a major Windows bug affecting mice that happens at random on a new mouse install and you have to make sure your mouse installed correctly each time you plug in a new mouse to prevent it from happening.

First, the process for how to actually clean install a mouse:

1) Unplug old mouse

2) Open Windows Device Manager, click the "view" tab, and "show hidden devices"

3) This is where the first Windows bug comes in. You need to go to the following three tabs and remove all the grayed out entries using only the delete key on the keyboard. If you click enter while having an item selected to bring up it's tab view and uninstall through the driver tab, it will leave behind other entries under "human interfaces devices" section. Using only the delete key to remove them doesn't leave behind these entries.





4) You should not have any grayed out entries under the "human interface devices" section in device manager now when using this method, but if you have any junk in there from previous installs, remove them. But do not wander off into other tabs and remove grayed out entries in those if you don't know what you're doing. Like if your entire printer section is grayed out and you remove them all including root printer que, mouse movement will feel stupidly faster and out of control for no reason (more Windows bugs).

5) Reboot and plug in new mouse

6) This is where the second Windows USB bug comes in and is much more problematic than the first. Long story short, newer mice identify themselves to Windows as a both a mouse and a keyboard in device manager, presumably for keyboard macro support. On a proper mouse install, the 'keyboard' part of the mouse will ALWAYS show up as the lowest entry under the keyboard section of device manager. This is the way it always is on a fresh Windows install too. This bug does not occur on a fresh Windows install if you have a mouse plugged into USB port #1 and keyboard plugged into port #2.

Seemingly at random, sometimes the 'keyboard' detected part of the mouse will install itself at the top of the list under the keyboard section. Whenever this happens the mouse movement will feel off-kilter and just not right at all. If this happens, just do the clean install process I detailed above and reinstall the mouse. To determine which keyboard entry is connected to the mouse, all you need to do is open up the "events" tab for each keyboard entry and look at the timestamp for installation date. If you just clean installed a new mouse, the most recent timestamp of the two will be the mouse.

If the mouse's keyboard entry is not the lowest in the hierarchy on device manager, the mouse will feel off because this Windows bug somehow caused it to install incorrectly.

Mouse Input Lag BIOS & Windows Optimization Guide
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Last edited by r0ach; 07-01-2020 at 07:07 PM.
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 07:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by r0ach View Post
I haven't gotten around to writing a guide about this issue, but if you read through the entire post, you'll see this contains a major Windows bug affecting mice that happens at random on a new mouse install and you have to make sure your mouse installed correctly each time you plug in a new mouse to prevent it from happening.

First, the process for how to actually clean install a mouse:

1) Unplug old mouse

2) Open Windows Device Manager, click the "view" tab, and "show hidden devices"

3) This is where the first Windows bug comes in. You need to go to the following three tabs and remove all the grayed out entries using only the delete key on the keyboard. If you click enter while having an item selected to bring up it's tab view and uninstall through the driver tab, it will leave behind other entries under "human interfaces devices" section. Using only the delete key to remove them doesn't leave behind these entries.





4) You should not have any grayed out entries under the "human interface devices" section in device manager now when using this method, but if you have any junk in there from previous installs, remove them.

5) Reboot and plug in new mouse

6) This is where the second Windows USB bug comes in and is much more problematic than the first. Long story short, newer mice identify themselves to Windows as a both a mouse and a keyboard in device manager, presumably for keyboard macro support. On a proper mouse install, the 'keyboard' part of the mouse will ALWAYS show up as the lowest entry under the keyboard section of device manager. This is the way it always is on a fresh Windows install too. This bug does not occur on a fresh Windows install if you have a mouse plugged into USB port #1 and keyboard plugged into port #2.

Seemingly at random, sometimes the 'keyboard' detected part of the mouse will install itself at the top of the list under the keyboard section. Whenever this happens the mouse movement will feel off-kilter and just not right at all. If this happens, just do the clean install process I detailed above and reinstall the mouse. To determine which keyboard entry is connected to the mouse, all you need to do is open up the "events" tab for each keyboard entry and look at the timestamp for installation date. If you just clean installed a new mouse, the most recent timestamp of the two will be the mouse.

If the mouse's keyboard entry is not the lowest in the hierarchy on device manager, the mouse will feel off because this Windows bug somehow caused it to install incorrectly.
So this finally fixes swamp cursor?

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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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No. The main issue, as I mentioned in the post, is that on a fresh Windows install it always installs the mouse and keyboard correctly in a deterministic way, but if you plug in a new mouse after the fact, Windows and it's bugs cause mice to be installed non-deterministically at random and the mouse will feel off if you get hit by this keyboard bug.

This is another reason I despise Razer mice, because their mice identify themselves to Windows as 1 mouse and 2 keyboards instead of 1 keyboard. Their sensor implementations never feel good compared to other brands like Logitech, and this is one reason why, too much bloat. All those virtual keyboard devices DO affect mouse movement unlike their BS propaganda claiming it doesn't. It also just exposes you to possibility of more Windows bugs like this.

Mouse Input Lag BIOS & Windows Optimization Guide
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Last edited by r0ach; 07-01-2020 at 07:15 PM.
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 07:12 PM
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no, this solves clown cursors.

swamp cursor is clearly the EMI,EMF, RFI, BMW, & CIA in people's water pipes.

reminds me, we fired this T1 guy that commonly made the mistake of deleting the ENTIRE category in device manager. The last straw was him bricking a remote new hire's laptop on day one.

yay I has no grays! at least not in device manager and i never removed them previously.

quite interesting how one windows install behaves differently from another.

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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 07:56 PM
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Not claiming i can notice any difference with mouse feel but I found it kind of funny how the "keyboard" entry for the mouse changed to a different location after every reinstall. Took three reboots to get it to the bottom of the list.
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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Dollar View Post
Not claiming i can notice any difference with mouse feel but I found it kind of funny how the "keyboard" entry for the mouse changed to a different location after every reinstall. Took three reboots to get it to the bottom of the list.
Yea, I'm not sure what the percentage chance of this non-deterministic mouse behavior occurring is, but the newest keyboard entry (that belonging to the mouse) being on bottom is the correct way and the way it always seems to install on a fresh Windows install with the mouse plugged into port #1 and keyboard plugged into port #2.

If I had to guess what the odds are, I would say the odds of the mouse installing correctly are higher than incorrectly, but sometimes you can get streaks of this occurring three times in a row, so the chance of it happening could even be as high as 50%. To clarify, this ONLY happens when plugging in a new mouse that Windows has not seen before (or if you've deleted all instances of it in device manager). If it installs correctly then you unplug the mouse and re-plug it back in, it's positions in device manager will not move, so you're safe once you get it to install in a correct manner.

Mouse Input Lag BIOS & Windows Optimization Guide
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Last edited by r0ach; 07-01-2020 at 09:15 PM.
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 09:21 PM
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Huh, this actually changed the 'dpi feel' of my mouse. I now have to increase dpi a bit to get my turn radius back in MW 2019.

Aiming seems fine. Still testing this.
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:33 AM
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none of those are bugs or have any impact on anything, thankfully.

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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:34 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by schizobeyondpil View Post
also CIA is really in pipes and wires.
100%

Quote: Originally Posted by r0ach View Post
Yea, I'm not sure what the percentage chance of this non-deterministic mouse behavior occurring is.
Interesting observation, will review more closely next time I'm at my PC.

I did explore manipulating driver load order in some tests which may or may not be related. By default usb classes/drivers are loaded on-demand during OS operation but you can force it to load on boot so it's always loaded somewhat more consistently. So using service control manager you can set the start type to on Boot vs on Demand, can be done using sc.exe or via registry.

Also related:
Get-WmiObject Win32_LoadOrderGroup which maps to HKLM>SYSTEM>CurrentControlSet>Control>GroupOrderLi st

Specifying Driver Load Order
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ver-load-order
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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:42 AM
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Dunno mate, i won't touch anything, it will screw things even more, like always, what was best to uninstall all softwares, completely all softwares, and just play games, whatever mate..

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