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post #1 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-12-2016, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE HDMI 2.1 Announced 1/4/17

To my Amazement, HDMI 2.1 Has been announced!

Digitrends Write up
Quote:
Many of these features will require new 48G HDMI cables, which allow for bandwidth up to 48Gbps for 8K video with HDR. Fortunately, these cables will be backward compatible, so while you may have to go cable shopping, at least you won’t have to worry about keeping multiple types of cables around.
The HDMI 2.1 specification is expected to be released early in the second quarter of 2017, but as for when we’ll actually begin to see it in products we can buy, it will probably be a while.

Wiki update for 2.1



Will Update as I learn more of the subject at hand.


Continuation:

I will start by Saying this... I have researched HDMI before, due to trying to find what version you need, cables you might need, to Run a TV/Monitor at 3840x2160p Either in 4:4:4 or just at 30/60 Hz Correctly.

EDIT: Found this Real Quick

Why We Don't Just Call Them "HDMI 1.4 Cables"?
Quote:
So, if the cable is compatible with HDMI version 1.4, and has been tested to meet the performance standards of HDMI version 1.4, why don't we just cut to the chase and call it "HDMI 1.4 cable" or "HDMI 1.4 compliant cable"? Well, HDMI is a registered trademark owned by HDMI Licensing, LLC; we are, as an HDMI Adopter, a licensee of that trademark, manufacturing products which carry the HDMI logos, and for that reason we try to stay compliant with HDMI Licensing's trademark usage guidelines, and those guidelines specifically prohibit the use of HDMI specification version numbers as a descriptive term for an HDMI cable. Accordingly, a cable may have been tested under HDMI specification 1.4; it may have been tested under the same standards applicable to testing under HDMI specification 1.4; it may have been certified compliant under HDMI 1.4; but it is not, despite any or all of those things, to be called a "1.4 cable."

At first blush, this may seem confusing. In fact, it's intended to be just the opposite. The problem with reference to version numbers in HDMI cable is that the use of version numbers creates a lot of false impressions and misunderstandings. For example, when HDMI 1.3 introduced new features, such as additional audio format support, consumers widely assumed that this meant that along with buying an HDMI 1.3 compliant DVD player and receiver which support these new features, one would need to buy a new HDMI 1.3-compliant cable. This was completely incorrect; but vendors certainly took advantage of it and used it to sell people new cables when the cables they already owned would work just fine.

What makes the use of version numbers even more confusing and useless to the consumer is that if it were proper to call something a "1.4 cable," that designation would still really be quite meaningless. Cables that were certified by the HDMI testing centers all the way back to the beginning of the HDMI specification would all qualify as "1.4 cables," because those cables remain compliant with all versions of the HDMI specification, including 1.4.

We are very much aware that many cables are being described by vendors as "HDMI 1.4 cables." This is misleading, and it is in violation of HDMI Licensing's trademark usage guidelines, but unless HDMI Licensing wants to take on a considerable campaign of litigation to enforce those guidelines it's likely to continue. It is not a good business practice, and when a vendor advertises using those terms it ought to be seen as a red flag; vendors who misdescribe one aspect of a product may misdescribe others, and are unlikely to be very knowledgeable about the product.
Quote from Bluejeancables

Now Here is the deal.

Story from Yesterday 9/11/16

Went to Bestbuy in Local Town (Lafayette, LA) to see a TV in person that I have extensively researched for a house upgrade (Currently own a 50" Insignia 1080p 60hz that I purchased over 3years ago and now have waterdamage to the sensor that "speaks" to a remote. Neither currently work anymore, so that leads me to the idea of a new TV... and since I have waited so long I feel the need for a 2160p TV with low input lag for Gaming on PS4/ PS4 Pro in the near future.

The Story. I go into best buy to see the TV in person ( I need to see it) and am quickly asked if I would like to save money and Buy a Sony TV instead ( I am a nice person most of the time) I tell the salesman "No, I came here to see this Tv in particular and going to see a Sony would defeat the purpose of my visit"

I notice while browsing around that there is a TV on Open box Sale ( Samsung UN55KS8000) for 1197USD (Review of the SAMSUNG KS8000 Series Here) the sale price was tempting already since it is essentially the same price as the 49" ! The Next salesman spoke of another 20% of the Open Box to be able to afford some of "New" HDMI Cables that I would need for the TV, in which case I had a raised eyebrow due to my research of HDMI Already.

So I figured at this point, 20% Off was the real key here and put the 55" TV lower than a Sale price of a 49" At around 950USD before Tax. So he proceeds to bring me to the "New" HDMI Cables which are made by Monster.

Here is the Cables in Question
Monster 9' Black Platinum Rated at 27Gbps His selling point Bolded

Monster Regular Platinum Rated at 22Gbps , His Selling Point Bolded

HDMI Wiki

Picture of Current HDMI Specs


In this picture you can see that the max bandwidth of the Cable is 18Gbps

Upon Researching how Monster advertises the 27gbps

A Shot from the Video "Demo" on each link to pictures on Bestbuys website.




"21Gbps @ 4k/2k ( 8-16bit Colour Depth) @ 480/600hz" For Future Technology.

As of Current all HDMI Cables are built (I Feel) on Version 1.4B which allowed the Resolution of 4096×2160p/30 Hz Max.

Now this is quote from the Official HDMI Website
Quote:
HDMI 2.0b, which is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI specification, is the most recent update of the HDMI specification. It also enables key enhancements to support market requirements for enhancing the consumer video and audio experience.

What are the key advanced features enabled by HDMI 2.0b?

Enables transmission of High Dynamic Range (HDR) video
Bandwidth up to 18Gbps
[email protected]/60 (2160p),
which is 4 times the clarity of 1080p/60 video resolution
Up to 32 audio channels for a multi-dimensional immersive audio experience
Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity
Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to multiple users (Up to 4)
Support for the wide angle theatrical 21:9 video aspect ratio
Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
CEC extensions provide more expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point
HDMI 2.0b does not define new cables or new connectors. Current High Speed cables (Category 2 cables) are capable of carrying the increased bandwidth

Complete FAQ For HDMI 2.0



This is my Personal Favorite Part of the Website FAQ

Does HDMI 2.0 replace HDMI 1.x?

No, HDMI 2.0 is built on top of HDMI 1.x and any device that wants to implement HDMI 2.0 must first implement HDMI 1.x as a baseline requirement.

Is HDMI 2.0 backwards compatible with HDMI 1.x?

Yes, all HDMI versions are fully backward compatible with all previous versions.
Does HDMI 2.0 require new connectors?

No, HDMI 2.0 uses the existing connectors.
Does HDMI 2.0 require new cables?

No, HDMI 2.0 features will work with existing HDMI cables. Higher bandwidth features, such as [email protected]/60 (2160p) video formats, will require existing High Speed HDMI cables (Category 2 cables).

So Here is my Question...

Why Lie to an informed customer about something such as HDMI? If I can use my existing cable that if purchased withing the last 5 years Display 3840x2160p Resolution no matter the cable.... try and sell me such a product with inflated prices?

So.. .to continue.. here is a cable "Made" by Insignia, Bestbuys own Brand.

It is a 6' Cable for 20USD that "Should" do the same thing as the 99USD Monster Cable Correct?

In the Description of the Insignia Cable it says
Quote:
Only @ Best Buy
With support for 1080p high-definition resolution, 3D TV and 7.1 surround sound, this Insignia™ NS-HG06505 HDMI cable helps you enjoy immersive visuals and audio. The 6' length offers flexible placement options.
thinking.gif 1080p Only??? Really?

So If We Look at the Back of the Insignia Box It is like This

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 100

Now you will see the Clear 10.2 Gbps Blah blah Blah... But at the Bottom is Says HDMI WITH HIGH SPEED ETHERNET

Here are the 4 Types of HDMI Cables, Yes? (As per an easy Google Search)



Would you look at the Bottom 2 Lines of that picture?
Quote:
High Speed HDMI Cable – 1080p, 4K, 3D and deep color.

High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet.

As in a High Speed HDMI Cable is already capable of 4K Resolution and the ETHERNET addition is just that.... adding an ETHERNET signal to the Cable...

20USD or 99USD for as far as I can Find.... The Same Signal as all HDMI cables are going to be based off of the 1.4B Version and Thereafter the Component you purchase (TV, Monitors... ETC) will be updated with 2.0 or Later Versions of HDMI 1.4b....

Sorry about the Rant... But I was frustrated at the store, after speaking with someone that was trying to sell me a 100$ HDMI cable to get "27Gbps" of performance that currently isn't available yet... rolleyes.gif

TESTING DONE ON 1080p CERTIFIED Vs PREMIUM HDMI CERTIFIED CABLES COMPARISON.

(I have not checked Nvidia control panel to see what Refresh rate the Crossover 324k is running at)

Here are the Cables in question.

This is the 1080 cable I have booted the computer with to test first. I Unplugged the displayport cable from my top EVGA 980Sc (That are running in SLI currently) and replaced the displayport cable with this Monoprice 6' "1080p" Certified Cable.

Note that is labled as a High Speed Ethernet HDMI Cable





Here are the Shots of the PREMIUM HDMI CERTIFIED CABLE







I took a shot of the actual head of the 1080p Certified cable to note the amount of pins in the HDMI Head to see if there will be a difference on any of the cables I attempt to try. Notice that on the bottom row, there is only one Missing, the very one to the right. The pin number for that is actually PIN 2 (TMDS DATA2 SHIELD)



Here is what Is written on the Cable






I am going to take a snippet of NVIDIA Control panel without modifying anything now, just going to open it up and see what the default setting the cable has the monitor running at. Before I do that, I will note, that when I booted up the computer, It detected the HDMI as 2.0 Socket. I have the monitor to Auto Detect the signal coming in.


Well, Would you look at that....



It would appear that a normal "1080p Certified HDMI Cable, high speed with ethernet" Is capable of running at 2160p and Pushing 60HZ!!! A revolution has started rolleyes.gif
Under the output colour format for the Screen in this above snippet, I still have the option of the 4:2:2 or to run 4:4:4 or what is currently chosen, the RGB mode.

Best part about this, Both Cables with shipping... .12 USD$ lachen.gif

Also about an SLI Configuration, Nothing has changed, computer is still currently in SLI with no modifications other than switching from displayport to HDMI




So I have taken shots of the Description on the PREMIUM HDMI CABLE.




Here is the Head of the PREMIUM HDMI Connector.



It came with a little plastic Hat for the "Premium" name I suppose to protect the connectors during shipping, the 1080p Certified didn't get the same royal transport protection.



The PREMIUM HDMI Is the Top Cable and the 1080p Certified is the Bottom cable in these picutres. Note the thickness and writting. Almost Identical.





Going to Check the Native Resolution again. I did the same process. Removed the 1080p Certified cable while the Computer was turned off, then replaced with the "Premium HDMI" then turned the computer back on. The Monitor again auto detected the HDMI 2.0 Port Being used and booted then into windows.

Nvidia Control Panel Default Pictures. (Look familiar?)




Haven't touched anything at all. Everything Is set where it needs to be.

TCO
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post #2 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-12-2016, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-12-2016, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So after talking to the Rep, They didn't know why the 19.99 Insignia cable was advertised at HIGH SPEED with Ethernet meaning it was not just a "Standard" HDMI cable, capable of transfering a resolution higher than 1080p.

Later they said that the Version of the Cable in question was 1.3

When asking about the MOnster Cable that is advertised at 27gbits and showing her the max is 18gits currently, they said that they couldn't find the version number of that Cable (1.3, 1.4B) and that the manufacturer stated that the MOnster Cable was HDMI 2.0 Compliant (Duh) and that "The Higher speeds according to the manufacturer website is for Data Transfers to and from Hard Drives"

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post #4 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-12-2016, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Found a Fantastic Site with More information. Great information of what Makes a "Premium HDMI Cable" thumb.gif
Quote:
The Premium HDMI Cable program really has two elements, to address two different but related problems. First, there is the testing element: in addition to passing the conventional 1.3/1.4 Category 2 cable tests, which test the cable only out to 3.4 Gbps per channel (10.2 combined), the Premium testing program tests the cable's electrical characteristics all the way out to 6.0 Gbps/channel (18 Gbps combined) so that the certification test DOES represent the actual conditions of use of the cable. If the cable passes certification, it should ALWAYS function correctly when used to connect two HDMI 2.0-compliant devices.

Second, there is an authentication element. One of the regrettable things about HDMI cable certification is that a lot of cable is sold as "high speed" when it isn't, or even when it hasn't passed any certification testing at all. People often suppose we are making this up; but we are routinely approached by Chinese manufacturers of HDMI cable who either have no certifications at all or who have no certifications for the particular cables they sell, and every year vendors of uncertified HDMI cable at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas get shut down in mid-show. And it's not always easy to know the difference between uncertified cable and the real thing, because a manufacturer may hold a certificate for one cable design, and then present that certificate as supporting documentation for a different cable entirely. For the consumer it's even worse than it is for us -- the brand name of the cable usually belongs to a company that's not an Adopter (consider, for example, that the leading brand sold in electronics shops is not an HDMI Adopter), and there simply is no way to look up the manufacturer's credentials. For this reason, Premium HDMI Cables must be certified at the particular length sold and must bear a Premium Certified Cable label -- these labels are printed by HDMI Licensing, they include a hologram and a 2D barcode to prevent counterfeiting, and each one of them is indexed back to the particular cable for which it was sold, so that nobody can simply obtain a batch of labels for one cable and apply them to something else entirely.

It remains the case that the intent of the spec is that any legitimate "high speed" HDMI cable under 1.3/1.4 should handle 2.0 signals; but only a Premium HDMI Cable has actually been tested at the full 18.0 Gbps bandwidth and proven to actually work; and only a Premium HDMI Cable bears the anti-counterfeiting sticker to ensure that the manufacturer of the cable really does hold a certificate for that particular product.

BlueJeansCable

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post #5 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-12-2016, 09:11 PM
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I just buy the $2.50 cables off newegg they do 4k 60hz just fine. Always considered the device to be the deciding factor in which hdmi spec it has not the cable.


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post #6 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-12-2016, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozlay View Post

I just buy the $2.50 cables off newegg they do 4k 60hz just fine. Always considered the device to be the deciding factor in which hdmi spec it has not the cable.

This is what I have really been looking for all along. Tell me what you think of this.

Why We Don't Just Call Them "HDMI 1.4 Cables"?
Quote:
So, if the cable is compatible with HDMI version 1.4, and has been tested to meet the performance standards of HDMI version 1.4, why don't we just cut to the chase and call it "HDMI 1.4 cable" or "HDMI 1.4 compliant cable"? Well, HDMI is a registered trademark owned by HDMI Licensing, LLC; we are, as an HDMI Adopter, a licensee of that trademark, manufacturing products which carry the HDMI logos, and for that reason we try to stay compliant with HDMI Licensing's trademark usage guidelines, and those guidelines specifically prohibit the use of HDMI specification version numbers as a descriptive term for an HDMI cable. Accordingly, a cable may have been tested under HDMI specification 1.4; it may have been tested under the same standards applicable to testing under HDMI specification 1.4; it may have been certified compliant under HDMI 1.4; but it is not, despite any or all of those things, to be called a "1.4 cable."

At first blush, this may seem confusing. In fact, it's intended to be just the opposite. The problem with reference to version numbers in HDMI cable is that the use of version numbers creates a lot of false impressions and misunderstandings. For example, when HDMI 1.3 introduced new features, such as additional audio format support, consumers widely assumed that this meant that along with buying an HDMI 1.3 compliant DVD player and receiver which support these new features, one would need to buy a new HDMI 1.3-compliant cable. This was completely incorrect; but vendors certainly took advantage of it and used it to sell people new cables when the cables they already owned would work just fine.

What makes the use of version numbers even more confusing and useless to the consumer is that if it were proper to call something a "1.4 cable," that designation would still really be quite meaningless. Cables that were certified by the HDMI testing centers all the way back to the beginning of the HDMI specification would all qualify as "1.4 cables," because those cables remain compliant with all versions of the HDMI specification, including 1.4.

We are very much aware that many cables are being described by vendors as "HDMI 1.4 cables." This is misleading, and it is in violation of HDMI Licensing's trademark usage guidelines, but unless HDMI Licensing wants to take on a considerable campaign of litigation to enforce those guidelines it's likely to continue. It is not a good business practice, and when a vendor advertises using those terms it ought to be seen as a red flag; vendors who misdescribe one aspect of a product may misdescribe others, and are unlikely to be very knowledgeable about the product.

TCO

Added to the OP thumb.gif
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post #7 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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HDMI Myths and Misconceptions are Located on this Page

Quote from Same Site: But on What Makes one HDMI Cable better than the Other.
Quote:
Generally, in looking at HDMI cable products currently available on the market, we've found that these issues get overlooked. Instead of trying to control impedance well, which will result in flattening the curve on the attenuation chart, manufacturers generally try to control resistance. Why? Well, resistance is a lot easier to control. Bigger wire (smaller AWG number) has less resistance, and choice of materials can play a role, too (silver-plated copper is lower in resistance than bare copper, and bare copper is lower in resistance than tin-plated copper, for example). But as the frequency demands placed on the cable increase, bigger wire doesn't really help all that much (and, for a whole slew of reasons having to do with manufacturing process control, it can actually hurt), because it's not the total loss that's limiting performance; it's the non-linear component of the loss that's the real problem. With return loss specs not generally available for Chinese-sourced cable, one often can't get a good idea exactly what basis there is for comparison between two HDMI cables.

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post #8 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 07:15 AM
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This is how Monoprice became such a big vendor. They started their business model on selling HDMI cables at their correct price and generally destroyed the 'premium HDMI cable' market that Monster has so actively tried to foster. From the research I've done, all HDMI cables are pretty much the same, the only specification difference is on the device specifically.

For what its worth, when I finally got my RX 470, I used the same 5 year old monoprice cable to connect my HTPC to my 4K television. From the read out on MPC-HC and certain low polygon steam titles I've been playing lately, I am getting the full 4K @ 60 Hz experience.

The premium HDMI cable is all marketing, and none of it is legitimate. They made some serious cash 2005-2010 when 1080p was entering the market and none of us knew better. From what I've read, they've lost most of that market share since. I suspect you're catching some renewed marketing as they hope to convince a few poor suckers that 4K requires one of these overpriced cables.

The worst thing is, I bought one of those $99 monster cables way back when I didn't know better. It is the only cable I've ever had that has failed, go figure.

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post #9 of 85 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zdub303 View Post

This is how Monoprice became such a big vendor. They started their business model on selling HDMI cables at their correct price and generally destroyed the 'premium HDMI cable' market that Monster has so actively tried to foster. From the research I've done, all HDMI cables are pretty much the same, the only specification difference is on the device specifically.

For what its worth, when I finally got my RX 470, I used the same 5 year old monoprice cable to connect my HTPC to my 4K television. From the read out on MPC-HC and certain low polygon steam titles I've been playing lately, I am getting the full 4K @ 60 Hz experience.

The premium HDMI cable is all marketing, and none of it is legitimate. They made some serious cash 2005-2010 when 1080p was entering the market and none of us knew better. From what I've read, they've lost most of that market share since. I suspect you're catching some renewed marketing as they hope to convince a few poor suckers that 4K requires one of these overpriced cables.

The worst thing is, I bought one of those $99 monster cables way back when I didn't know better. It is the only cable I've ever had that has failed, go figure.

lachen.gif Not surprised at the bolded.

But I did want to quote this line you wrote
Quote:
The premium HDMI cable is all marketing, and none of it is legitimate

And Actually now, This statement is Wrong.



Refer to POST 4

TCO

Also Wanted to Dive into Monsters website a little deeper to see if I could find more about the Cables they Offer. On the Site for the 27Gbs advertising or w/e Someone called them out and they responded accordingly with the Truth.

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