[pcgamesn] Not all AMD 300-series AM4 motherboards may be 3rd Gen Ryzen CPU compatible - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[pcgamesn] Not all AMD 300-series AM4 motherboards may be 3rd Gen Ryzen CPU compatible

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post #21 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by CelticGamer View Post
Thanks, I appreciate it. But that really didn't answer the question of their blanket statement using the term "ALL".

I'm sincerely asking, when a company uses the term "ALL" how should I interpret that?

Maybe a wiser statement would have been "All of you may easily upgrade PROVIDED that your motherboard maker releases a compatible BIOS update".

Maybe, though I think that the most reasonable interpretation is that "ALL" AM4 motherboards will be capable of accommodating the new chips through 2020. Particulars are up to motherboard vendors and have been for as long as motherboards have been manufactured by third parties. All AMD can do is give the vendors the tools and the implication of the article as written supports that. "Motherboard vendors may have to make some basic accommodations" is a far cry from a direct contradiction of AMD's AM4 support. AMD is supporting the socket compatibility. Motherboard vendors will do what they need to do to comply or they won't and you'll know which brand to avoid in the future.

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post #22 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 05:28 PM
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@AlphaC where are you finding this information? I am curious to know where my B350 Fatal1ty ITX board sits.


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post #23 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I was told to look under HWInfo64, Motherboard Tab, SMBIOS DMI, BIOS, and then Bios Size. Maybe that's wrong?

Mine says "Bios size 16Mbytes".

The X470 Gaming Pro Carbon is missing from that list for whatever reason, but seeing as though all the other MSI boards are saying "128mb" I'm assuming it's safe to say that it probably is as well.

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post #24 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 07:27 PM
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I honestly don't get why supporting newer CPU microcodes takes up so much space nowadays. Back in the BIOS days, even up to Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge for some motherboard makers, there was a big SB + IB line-up, from Celeron, Pentium, i3, i5 and i7 and the BIOS updates were small and so was the size of the flash chips on the board. Maybe people would be ok with a firmware option that discards the RGB lighting nonsense and permanently turns it off, freeing up room for more CPU support...

Anyway, there is a way around any space problem that may arise. This isn't a situation where you're buying a board in a store that might not have the correct firmware for a newer chip (like the situation that happened with the APUs), this is the case where people are already running a 300 or 400 series motherboard with a 1000 or 2000 series Ryzen CPU. So, it's simple to get around the problem: include a CPU detection routine in the firmware flash utility that determines what to keep, or in other words, what firmware version to install. You only need the microcodes for the CPU series that you're on and the one you want to upgrade to.

If you're running a 1000 series Ryzen and want to upgrade to the 3000 series, the flash utility can install a version of the firmware that skips the 2000 series, thus ensuring that it has space and that you have a smooth transition. Likewise, if you're running a 2000 series chip, the flash utility will discard support for the 1000 series and only include support for the 2000 and 3000 series.


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post #25 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 07:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
@AlphaC where are you finding this information? I am curious to know where my B350 Fatal1ty ITX board sits.
It's usually on the spec sheet. The only vendor that obscures it is MSI as far as I know and I saw reviews online with the BIOS chip size and model #.


https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1...#Specification

128Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support

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post #26 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 08:01 PM
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so op got upset about nothing? big surprise

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post #27 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 08:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
It's usually on the spec sheet. The only vendor that obscures it is MSI as far as I know and I saw reviews online with the BIOS chip size and model #.


https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1...#Specification

128Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support
I see. Thank you.


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post #28 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
I'd be disappointed if any decent X370 and X470 doesn't have support.

Alphabetically , some boards and their BIOs chips:
Asrock X470 Taichi has 256Mb
Asrock X370 Taichi has 128Mb (high end)
Asrock X470 Fatal1ty K4 has 256 Mb (mediocre budget board)
ASUS Crosshair VII Hero has 256 Mb Flash ROM
ASUS Crosshair VI Hero has 128 Mb Flash ROM
ASUS ROG STRIX x470-F has 256 Mb Flash ROM (midrange)
ASUS ROG STRIX x370-F has 128 Mb Flash ROM (midrange)
ASUS ROG STRIX X470-I has 256 Mb Flash ROM
ASUS PRIME X370-Pro has 128 Mb Flash ROM (low midrange)
Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 has a socket BIOS chip and total 2 x 128 Mbit flash
Gigabyte X470 Aorus Ultra has 2 x 128 Mbit BIOS chips (basically budget board with BCLK)
Gigabyte X370 K7 has 2x 128Mb BIOS chips
Gigabyte X370 Gaming 5 has 2x 128 Mb BIOS chips
MSI X470 Gaming M7 has 128Mb (high end)
MSI X470 Pro Carbon has (midrange)
MSI B450 Pro Carbon has 128Mb (budget board) if we go by B450 Tomahawk
MSI X370 Pro Carbon has 128Mb (mediocre board but popular)
MSI X370 SLI PLUS has 128Mb (budget X370 board)



-----



16MiBytes is the criteria , so let's not get carried away here. That's 128Mb.

I realize that this is just a quick overview and is far from a complete list but Biostar does not seem to show bios size at all. All I know is that each bios update is 16384kb or 15625 mebibyte.



That said I do realize that there will be a performance hit if I do stick with this Biostar X370 GT7 just because of the older chipset. Since most of the others do not have all the features if this GT7 a GT9 could be in my future.

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post #29 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 11:08 AM
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Has nothing to do with the space required by just the microcodes (which are just 4KB in size), but the fact that supporting multiple designs inflates the bios size significantly.
Currently the AM4 boards need to support four, at least partially different designs (15h Bristol Ridge, 17h Zeppelin B1, 17h Raven Ridge and 17h Zeppelin B2). Each of them require different SMU, PSP and PMU firmwares along with the different
AGESA modules. The firmwares themselves are typically several hundreds of KBs alone, per design.

Generally there is a lot of room for optimizations (vendor code wise), so I cannot quite see the flash size becoming a real issue any time soon.
Also at AGESA compile time, the ODMs can exclude support for certain (obsolete) designs (e.g. Bristol Ridge) not worth of supporting to reduce the final image size.
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post #30 of 74 (permalink) Old 01-20-2019, 11:11 AM
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Even if a BIOS chip isn't large enough to support every CPU from the first Ryzen chips to the last it could still be broken up. If you have these CPUs use this BIOS, if you have the others use this one.

That could get a little complicated but it wouldn't be impossible to make it work. If your board doesn't work with R2 blame the maker.

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