[Tom's] Intel Confirms Apple Macs Will Switch to Arm CPUs by 2020, Says Report - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Tom's] Intel Confirms Apple Macs Will Switch to Arm CPUs by 2020, Says Report

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post #21 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 10:13 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by dj_tokyu View Post
Then why have they been using AMD as an exclusive graphics partner for the last little while? NVidia clearly has them beat in that department.

What apple REALLY cares about is how much markup they can apply to each individual component they put in their machines.
Apple hates Nvidia so they refuse to use their chips. It's largely because Apple demands what they demand and Nvidia does the same. Two walled gardens attempting to work with each other doesn't work. Also, AMD's per/watt is excellent if you run them at the clockrate Apple does. The only AMD chips that can't compete are the enthusiast chips that are clocked to the hilt.

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post #22 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 10:55 AM
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I'm unfamiliar with ARM architecture compared to x86. If Apple switches to ARM, what kinds of performance would one expect from something like Photoshop, Premiere, Final Cut, or the like? I believe someone in the thread said earlier that the programming was incompatible with each other.

Would these new machines trump a comparable PC build then? It would be odd perhaps that they would keep ARM in their lower products but then still retain Intel at the high end. It makes sense, yet also doesn't. Of course if ARM is good enough for the masses then as was also said, who needs a "real" PC/Mac? Clearly they think us on OCN don't ;p.

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post #23 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by dj_tokyu View Post
Then why have they been using AMD as an exclusive graphics partner for the last little while? NVidia clearly has them beat in that department.

What apple REALLY cares about is how much markup they can apply to each individual component they put in their machines.



OpenGL is better on AMD.


Apple uses mainly OpenGL instead of DirectX where NV has the performance advantage in power per watt.

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post #24 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
There is no rule that states only x86 architectures can support desktop applications. The problem with ARM has always been that x86 software can't work on it. But most of Apple's biggest desktop apps are in-house designed so they will be able to optimize all of their first-party software on ARM no problem. The issue will be with Windows-compatible applications, legacy apps, etc.

Look at the iPad Pro and its A12X Bionic SoC for instance. The hardware is INSANELY powerful and is EASILY able to rival the performance of comparable Intel setups. The problem with using the iPad Pro as a laptop-replacement, however, is simply iOS and its locked-down nature. Slap a robust file system into it, add support for typical desktop peripherals (such as mice etc), and you can better believe the iPad Pro could absolutely serve as a laptop replacement (at least insofar as a Macbook goes). Apple has built their own Mac ecosystem for decades now and has never depended on compatibility with Windows apps, so I see no issues with them ditching x86 and switching to their own in-house processors moving forward, provided they can continue to provide satisfactory (or hopefully improved) performance of their own Mac software on ARM. (I do realize that this move to ARM would severely limit the already spotty at best support for PC games on the Mac, as well as negating the dual-boot option with Windows)

This is actually kind of exciting news for me as I just bought a new iPad Pro 11" last week and I am absolutely in love with it. The power of that A12X chip really is something special; its just that Apple has intentionally walled-off a lot of its capabilities in iOS to make sure that the iPad doesn't encroach into Mac territory. But if they are going this route, perhaps those walls will start coming down and we might see an actual file system and mouse support on the new iPad Pros in future...
Here's a good one:

Windows apps are designed for a x86/64 codebase only, as are all current OSX apps.

Want to run Photoshop? Doesn't work on ARM.
Want to run full-blood Office? Doesn't work on ARM.
Want to run pretty much anything you would chose a PC over a tablet for? Doesn't work on ARM.

The Surface had an ARM variant and MS provided an emulator to run x86 apps on it. Feel free to cringe at the 70%+ performance loss that comes with it compared to native.

Apple is not exactly a major player in PC space to able to bully all these companies into re-writing their software to support the new CPU arch immediately. This product is effectively an Apple branded Chromebook for at least the first few years.

Quote: Originally Posted by The-Real-Link View Post
I'm unfamiliar with ARM architecture compared to x86. If Apple switches to ARM, what kinds of performance would one expect from something like Photoshop, Premiere, Final Cut, or the like? I believe someone in the thread said earlier that the programming was incompatible with each other.

Would these new machines trump a comparable PC build then? It would be odd perhaps that they would keep ARM in their lower products but then still retain Intel at the high end. It makes sense, yet also doesn't. Of course if ARM is good enough for the masses then as was also said, who needs a "real" PC/Mac? Clearly they think us on OCN don't ;p.
Zero performance. There is no ARM version of those applications at this time, so they will simply not work.

ARM has its place doing exactly what it does now, but it can not compete with the absolute raw performance that AMD and Intel can dish out. To be fair, no ARM chip draws 250w+, but that isn't the point either. The archs are designed for different purposes.

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post #25 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by dj_tokyu View Post
Then why have they been using AMD as an exclusive graphics partner for the last little while? NVidia clearly has them beat in that department.

What apple REALLY cares about is how much markup they can apply to each individual component they put in their machines.



OpenGL is better on AMD.


Apple uses mainly OpenGL instead of DirectX where NV has the performance advantage in power per watt.
iOS uses Metal and Mojave now uses Metal.

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post #26 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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To be completely honest Apple only needs to feed a handful of mouths to cover 95% of the typical MacOS usage.

If you were to make the effort to count them I'd bet on the low 40s. If you rule out content creators and artists, it wouldn't hit the dozen programs you'd need to port.

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post #27 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 01:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Imouto View Post
To be completely honest Apple only needs to feed a handful of mouths to cover 95% of the typical MacOS usage.

If you were to make the effort to count them I'd bet on the low 40s. If you rule out content creators and artists, it wouldn't hit the dozen programs you'd need to port.
These will most likely be running iOS which already have a ton of applications. They are missing a ton of features which are due to lack of processing power. iPad Pro was the first device in this family and it will expand.

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post #28 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
It will likely be a glorified iPad or chromebook device if it's based on ARM.
this. They're basically telling us that the not PRO line is now going to all run off of truly mobile products, not just laptop parts.

and the merger of OS = they'll meet in the middle, cuz that's how marginalizing things works. You bring the lows up, and the highs down.
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post #29 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 02:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
Here's a good one:

Windows apps are designed for a x86/64 codebase only, as are all current OSX apps.

Want to run Photoshop? Doesn't work on ARM.
Want to run full-blood Office? Doesn't work on ARM.
Want to run pretty much anything you would chose a PC over a tablet for? Doesn't work on ARM.

The Surface had an ARM variant and MS provided an emulator to run x86 apps on it. Feel free to cringe at the 70%+ performance loss that comes with it compared to native.

Apple is not exactly a major player in PC space to able to bully all these companies into re-writing their software to support the new CPU arch immediately. This product is effectively an Apple branded Chromebook for at least the first few years.



Zero performance. There is no ARM version of those applications at this time, so they will simply not work.

ARM has its place doing exactly what it does now, but it can not compete with the absolute raw performance that AMD and Intel can dish out. To be fair, no ARM chip draws 250w+, but that isn't the point either. The archs are designed for different purposes.
Just to be clear, photoshop has been extending their iOS and android apps into a full powerhouse apps, as similar as they can. With the latest apple chips, the photoshop apps have been updated to be very close to the desktop versions. Of course performance is still not there compared to a high spec PC/imac.

Same with office. MS are offering a full suit for iOS and android.

The point is that they are trying to get there. Both adobe and MS understand that more and more people are moving into tablets or laptop replacements, so they work to make their software available there as well.

Same will do other developers in the future.
If apple really will push their chips into the MacBooks, you will see developers running to beat each other to the finish line with a full on suits of apps for all devices.
And you can't have that with android+windows. They still won't be compatible. So it will be a good option for apple to capture that market.


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post #30 of 81 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 02:41 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Just to be clear, photoshop has been extending their iOS and android apps into a full powerhouse apps, as similar as they can. With the latest apple chips, the photoshop apps have been updated to be very close to the desktop versions. Of course performance is still not there compared to a high spec PC/imac.

Same with office. MS are offering a full suit for iOS and android.

The point is that they are trying to get there. Both adobe and MS understand that more and more people are moving into tablets or laptop replacements, so they work to make their software available there as well.

Same will do other developers in the future.
If apple really will push their chips into the MacBooks, you will see developers running to beat each other to the finish line with a full on suits of apps for all devices.
And you can't have that with android+windows. They still won't be compatible. So it will be a good option for apple to capture that market.
The Android and iOS versions of Office are not even remotely close to the Desktop variant. They aren't even on par with O365 Web versions.

I do not see anything on the Play or App store that even remotely resembles Photoshop. Do you mean the near useless Photoshop "Fix" "Mix" and "Express" made to touch up pictures you took?

"Exists" and "are actually replacements" are two very different things.

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