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[Guru3D] AMD expected to talk about their Raytracing Strategy during E3

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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 10:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by keikei View Post
Looks like AMD will have hardware dedicated to ray tracing to match Nvidia. If this is true, RT will be the future...like it or not.
It's a fundamentally superior way of rendering 3D imagery. Of course it will be the future.
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 11:18 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post
It's a fundamentally superior way of rendering 3D imagery. Of course it will be the future.

^^ I think this is inevitable. When it gets to 'immersive reality' (is that still the right expression?), the idea is to get closer and closer to how the human eye sees and the brain perceives / processes it. Ray tracing is just one (important) part of that...just go into a (foggy) forest in the early morning sun...
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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 05:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by keikei View Post
RT will be the future...like it or not.
I have no doubt it'll be the future, and I'm looking forward to it. But like any latest and greatest thing, I'm gonna be waiting on the sidelines until the cost of entry is more reasonable.

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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 05:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by keikei View Post
Looks like AMD will have hardware dedicated to ray tracing to match Nvidia. If this is true, RT will be the future...like it or not.
According to my knowledge about capabilities of GCN architecture, Accelerated RayTracing was possible years ago. Previously it was CPU operated - if present and used entirely only for shadow generation.

The discussion whether it will be "realtime" eg >30fps on a given resolution is of a different kind, because there is dozens of questions about how many rays there actually is. Typical shading operations usually used rays as well, but it was like... one ray for entire surface or object.

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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Offler View Post
According to my knowledge about capabilities of GCN architecture, Accelerated RayTracing was possible years ago. Previously it was CPU operated - if present and used entirely only for shadow generation.

The discussion whether it will be "realtime" eg >30fps on a given resolution is of a different kind, because there is dozens of questions about how many rays there actually is. Typical shading operations usually used rays as well, but it was like... one ray for entire surface or object.
It depends on what you mean by "possible." The algorithms have been around for decades, but the raw computational requirements make a practical implementation very difficult. To do a decent job, you not only need to trace rays, you need to trace the scattered rays that happen when the first ray hits an object. The simple implementation is just specular reflections: one ray in, one ray out. To do diffuse reflections properly, to get the sort of ambient lighting that we're used to from real objects but never see in rendered imagery, that takes doing things like one ray in, a hundred rays out. Every time a ray, or a scattered ray, hits a surface, you multiply the total number.

You see how that might present a scaling problem.

The raytrace calculation, itself, is incredibly simple. You start with a 3-D spatial map with all the surfaces, you generate a bi-directional reflection distribution function (includes both specular and diffuse) for each surface, you start with some source rays each with a vector and intensity, and you point them in straight lines until they hit things. At each surface, the BRDF describes how many rays at which angles and with what intensity should come off of the surface based on the incident ray, and so you add those new rays to your list of rays to be traced and you keep going. Modern optical design software can handle the huge numbers of rays required for proper stray light analysis, and this sort of modeling is required to make quality optical systems. To use it in games is simply put the correct way to handle lighting, because it has the highest fidelity and is closest to reality.

That people got grumpy about Nvidia's stupid pricing for the RTX series does not change the technical superiority of raytracing for lighting simulation, no matter whose color is on the box.
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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post
It depends on what you mean by "possible." The algorithms have been around for decades, but the raw computational requirements make a practical implementation very difficult. To do a decent job, you not only need to trace rays, you need to trace the scattered rays that happen when the first ray hits an object. The simple implementation is just specular reflections: one ray in, one ray out. To do diffuse reflections properly, to get the sort of ambient lighting that we're used to from real objects but never see in rendered imagery, that takes doing things like one ray in, a hundred rays out. Every time a ray, or a scattered ray, hits a surface, you multiply the total number.

You see how that might present a scaling problem.

The raytrace calculation, itself, is incredibly simple. You start with a 3-D spatial map with all the surfaces, you generate a bi-directional reflection distribution function (includes both specular and diffuse) for each surface, you start with some source rays each with a vector and intensity, and you point them in straight lines until they hit things. At each surface, the BRDF describes how many rays at which angles and with what intensity should come off of the surface based on the incident ray, and so you add those new rays to your list of rays to be traced and you keep going. Modern optical design software can handle the huge numbers of rays required for proper stray light analysis, and this sort of modeling is required to make quality optical systems. To use it in games is simply put the correct way to handle lighting, because it has the highest fidelity and is closest to reality.

That people got grumpy about Nvidia's stupid pricing for the RTX series does not change the technical superiority of raytracing for lighting simulation, no matter whose color is on the box.
If there would be a complete replacement of standard rasterizing by raytracing in gaming, i would give Nvidia the credit, but we are nowhere near there. It appears to me that even when RTX titles increased amount of rays, need of specific computational hardware (tensor cores and others) is completely redundant.

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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 03:57 PM
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So, no ray tracing announcement. Basically very little new information from AMD at E3. Make sense with it being so close to computex where they already made their major announcements. They still have nothing to compete with anything beyond the RTX2070, just to sum things up.

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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 04:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post
RT is the future. RTX is not.
Exactly.

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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by BradleyW View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post
RT is the future. RTX is not.
Exactly.
What? I see RTX all over now. It's even used to create Marvel movies. It's no surprise we now see RTX based studio notebooks.

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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-10-2019, 07:25 PM
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i think you can file this in the false folder.

Remember the golden rule of statistics: A personal sample size of one is a sufficient basis upon which to draw universal conclusions.
Upload the computer to Dropbox and provide a link to it so others may download it to examine and give advice for repairs.
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