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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 06:36 AM
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I thought the rumor was next years Epyc was going to keep 64 cores but move to an SMT4 design so it had 256 threads?

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 09:25 AM
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Yeah SMT4 is going to be a game changer, and negate the need for insane core counts (Though I am sure they will still push higher than 64 cores for Epyc no doubt).

I envision AMD bridging the market segments of Mainstream Desktop and HEDT into just one socket eventually, especially with SMT4 making it so they can have insane thread counts, there wont be a need for such physically huge sockets/CPU packages in the mainstream market, and we will probably max out somewhere around 64 cores with triple or quadruple the threads...I mean in just the latest generation jump from X470 to X570, they've increased lane count, and X570 boards can take up to 128GB of ram, socket AM5 and beyond will essentially be HEDT for all intents and purposes at the rate things are going.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GHADthc View Post
Yeah SMT4 is going to be a game changer, and negate the need for insane core counts (Though I am sure they will still push higher than 64 cores for Epyc no doubt).

I envision AMD bridging the market segments of Mainstream Desktop and HEDT into just one socket eventually, especially with SMT4 making it so they can have insane thread counts, there wont be a need for such physically huge sockets/CPU packages in the mainstream market, and we will probably max out somewhere around 64 cores with triple or quadruple the threads...I mean in just the latest generation jump from X470 to X570, they've increased lane count, and X570 boards can take up to 128GB of ram, socket AM5 and beyond will essentially be HEDT for all intents and purposes at the rate things are going.
This resurrects "the" question again. Whatever the heck are we gonna do with 64 cores desktop cpus ?

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 12:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post
This resurrects "the" question again. Whatever the heck are we gonna do with 64 cores desktop cpus ?
never worry about thread contention again.

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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 12:23 PM
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Lol....these are old questions!

I remember having a 1MHz cpu, 8 bits, and a MASSIVE 64KB memory. When the C128D came out with double the memory - 128KB and a built in disc drive - 'what are people going to do with all that memory' people would say.....

At the time, in the HEDT market there were in fact already 16 and 32bit CPUs, but home users didn't need all that expensive stuff! Of course 3 years later we had the Commodore Amiga, 32bit, hardware multitasking home computer - with 0.5GB memory.

The next TR will be a monster, rest assured - and that tech will filter down to us in no time. Want realistic games? Then you kinda need more cores, memory and speed - maybe not today, but soon, the smallest, cheapest CPUs will come with no less than 64 cores, and you will want them, for games, for science, for research...

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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by crakej View Post
Lol....these are old questions!

I remember having a 1MHz cpu, 8 bits, and a MASSIVE 64KB memory. When the C128D came out with double the memory - 128KB and a built in disc drive - 'what are people going to do with all that memory' people would say.....

At the time, in the HEDT market there were in fact already 16 and 32bit CPUs, but home users didn't need all that expensive stuff! Of course 3 years later we had the Commodore Amiga, 32bit, hardware multitasking home computer - with 0.5GB memory.

The next TR will be a monster, rest assured - and that tech will filter down to us in no time. Want realistic games? Then you kinda need more cores, memory and speed - maybe not today, but soon, the smallest, cheapest CPUs will come with no less than 64 cores, and you will want them, for games, for science, for research...
Exactly my thoughts reading all these posts. 10 or so years ago a system with 2gb of memory and two threads was considered "HEDT" equivalent.. though back then there wasn't a marketing term for it. There were just computers.. some less powerful and others much more powerful.

As long as there is a market for it, there will be a product to fill said market. I think people are having issues adjusting to a more sensical market. So many drew their nerd creds / e peen from buying the "HEDT" class of product and used thin reasoning to justify the cost in relation to their use case. Now that that reasoning doesn't provide sufficient justification they say there is no purpose for the product. Funny. HEDT was never meant for gaming--though they'd sell you it if you wanted to throw money their way. The performance gains were non linear and made little rational sense after a point. They did make for pretty build logs though!

A high end desktop will never cannibalize server sales and vice versa. They're different products. One is designed with specific I/O and form factor to sit in a data center 24/7, the other is designed to sit under your desk and interface with a variety of devices. Each have different validation processes and VASTLY different support channels. There can be some overlap, but that doesn't change the fact you can have a 64c server platform and a 64c desktop platform and have a market for both.

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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Catscratch View Post
This resurrects "the" question again. Whatever the heck are we gonna do with 64 cores desktop cpus ?
Somebody will find a way to develop CineBench into a game instead of a benchmarking tool.

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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 03:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post
You are missing the point, having a $329 12C means AMD will push the lineup down by a stack, it means a 8C/16T will "downgrade" to a R5 and that is what we are hoping for, a $200+ 8C/16T that is clocked to 4.7G.

To have a gaming edge over current Intel offering, Zen 3 need to refine its latency between IF by another notch, and that is something i dont think we will see next year, aka refreshes.
I don't think next year is going to be a refresh. I'm pretty sure we are going to get Zen 3 next year, and that its got quite substantive changes. For example the TAGES branch predictor was one of the Zen 3 teams babies, and they finished it up in time and it was easily to plug in and replace the old branch predictor, which is why we got it this year. This means they were already working on serious overhauls. vs Zen 1 and even what was planned originally for Zen 2.

I think the 4000 series will bring more changes in terms of IPC then the 2000 series did. Now how much IPC that actually might be I'm not sure. Also hoping for more clocks, even if its just 150mhz. They give us 150 now and then another 150 with Zen 4 in 2021, they will have negated Intel's realistic (golden chips aside) clock speed advantage.

Last edited by tyvar; 07-11-2019 at 03:16 PM.
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 01:33 AM
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They'll be introducing some tech soon that executes single threaded loads on multiple threads. If it detects something can run in another thread, it will automatically do it, meaning code not written for multithreading will gain some multithreading performance. This is going to make executing code much more efficient and give a decent performance boost even without touching clocks, ipc, or any other improvements.

Computing power is growing exponentially again - things are looking VERY interesting for the future. AMD has basically increased the computing power of the planet by magnitudes never seen before. Because of this, tech will improve faster an faster!

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