[Gamer Meld]Intel Has Done It AGAIN, AMD's "Nvidia Killer" WEEKS Away?! - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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[Gamer Meld]Intel Has Done It AGAIN, AMD's "Nvidia Killer" WEEKS Away?!

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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 07:52 AM
Hey I get one of these!
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post
I don't think I will ever understand the issue people have with new sockets. It would have made no difference at all if my x370, x470 and x570 motherboards had different sockets on them.
Is there a reason I should need a new socket to go Zen 3? As far as I know, there are no feature upgrades, only performance ones. My X570 board will be more than enough to handle it.

Is there something with 10-series intel parts that you can say actually justifies a new socket? After all, the socket only does 16 PCI-e lanes, a DMI, display outs, Memory channels, and power. Intel is not doing PCI-e 4.0, the display pinouts are the same, still dual-channel DDR4, still just DMI 3.0. That leaves power. Does the power change enough over high end boards to justify a whole new socket entirely?

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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 08:30 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
Is there a reason I should need a new socket to go Zen 3? As far as I know, there are no feature upgrades, only performance ones. My X570 board will be more than enough to handle it.

Is there something with 10-series intel parts that you can say actually justifies a new socket? After all, the socket only does 16 PCI-e lanes, a DMI, display outs, Memory channels, and power. Intel is not doing PCI-e 4.0, the display pinouts are the same, still dual-channel DDR4, still just DMI 3.0. That leaves power. Does the power change enough over high end boards to justify a whole new socket entirely?
That's the biggest issue on the new socket, there is literally nothing new to it.

The only thing I can think of that might be different would be if it has HDMI 2.1 compatibility (Doubtful), which could just as easily be taken care of on a motherboard refresh.



Beyond that, the only thing I can think of, and hopefully someone more informed on this can enlighten me, is in regards to the IGPU having a different bus bandwidth, requiring more power, being in a different area of the die maybe? I dunno, I'm just spitballing here.


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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 08:55 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Socks keep you warm View Post
Nothing but speculation on the "Nvidia Killer".
Highly doubt it too AMD hasn't been competitive to Nvidia in a longggg time, going back to 290 X days.
I see them beating out 2x series by a few hairs, then immediately getting wrecked by ampere, then not being able to compete with ampere until late 2021.
Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
Is there a reason I should need a new socket to go Zen 3? As far as I know, there are no feature upgrades, only performance ones. My X570 board will be more than enough to handle it.

Is there something with 10-series intel parts that you can say actually justifies a new socket? After all, the socket only does 16 PCI-e lanes, a DMI, display outs, Memory channels, and power. Intel is not doing PCI-e 4.0, the display pinouts are the same, still dual-channel DDR4, still just DMI 3.0. That leaves power. Does the power change enough over high end boards to justify a whole new socket entirely?
no. its not justified, it;s just intel's business model. "lets add 1 extra pin, or shift all pins by .2nm so they don't line up!

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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 10:32 AM
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I can't see amd having a chart topping gpu again, nvidia just won't allow it.
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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doom26464 View Post
I can't see amd having a chart topping gpu again, nvidia just won't allow it.
Me neither, especially with AMD focused on two things whereas NVidia can focus on one.

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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:51 AM
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I guess it depends on the chart.

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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by doom26464 View Post
I can't see amd having a chart topping gpu again, nvidia just won't allow it.
Intel probably said the same thing a few years back.

Just like with Zen though, AMD will have to come up with a novel new technology and get it to market first in order to pull it off though. With tit-for-tat conventional upgrades though, it just won't happen any time soon.


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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 12:00 PM
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double post



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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 12:04 PM
What goes here?
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post
It's the difference between needing a new socket to support new features, and deliberately locking out an older socket that can easily work so that users on that old socket have to upgrade to a new one.

Imagine if the Ryzen 3000 series only came out on X570, despite it being perfectly capable of working on X470. You miss a few features, but that's for the customer to decide. That is a much better approach in favor of the consumer.
And obviously you're not going to develop Ryzen on AM3(+) because the limits are too large and will stagnate your technological advances.

In other words it's technological practicality vs predatory practices.
You make some excellent points. And I agree. I value the high compatibility of AM4 across multiple gen's of Ryzen. It's pretty great.

It's just not the way things are done in mature industries though. The common phrase bellowed out by management from most companies is "If people want something better they'll be willing to pay more for it".

I will not be surprised if AMD's next socket is unique per-generation like Intel. Or possibly a future socket, the one after the next. Coming from the underdog position they needed every advantage they could get to regain lost ground; now that ground is regained they can return to the status quo freely.

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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 12:33 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
You make some excellent points. And I agree. I value the high compatibility of AM4 across multiple gen's of Ryzen. It's pretty great.

It's just not the way things are done in mature industries though. The common phrase bellowed out by management from most companies is "If people want something better they'll be willing to pay more for it".

I will not be surprised if AMD's next socket is unique per-generation like Intel. Or possibly a future socket, the one after the next. Coming from the underdog position they needed every advantage they could get to regain lost ground; now that ground is regained they can return to the status quo freely.
It's possible but I think it's unlikely that AMD would change that practice. They would risk losing a loyal segment of customers by changing that practice, and they have a long ways to go before they can afford to lose customers. AMD's choice and Intel's choice are just two different ways of getting your money, which one is "right" is a matter of preference. I think it's a mistake to think that AMD made their choice because it was what is best for the consumer. It has to be cheaper to keep the same socket and it has also garnered a fair bit of goodwill, which has been very important to their well being during the lean years. To me it falls in line with their choice to have all their sku's unlocked, they had to provide some sort of reason to buy AMD over Intel.

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