[144Hz] [BR] [G-sync] [FreeSync] Whole truth about 144Hz monitors and blur reduction/syncing technologies - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[144Hz] [BR] [G-sync] [FreeSync] Whole truth about 144Hz monitors and blur reduction/syncing technologies

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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Worldwide investigation about 144hz monitors and blur reduction/syncing technologies.

First about Blur Reduction (ULMB, LightBoost) and G/Free-syncs.
BLUR REDUCTION (also known as ULMB, LightBoost) is useless for gaming. Absolutely.
I’ve tested few types of situations when you need to notice an enemy while fast-turning. For example, fast left-right check (90 deg left + 180 deg right) done in ~<0.5sec in CSGO. And also some fast-turning situations in Reflex and CPMA.
And you know what? BLUR REDUCTION IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS AND RATHER RUINS EVERYTHING THAN HELPING. It's 100%, absolutely not for gaming (unless you are playing Sims 4). And reality is there are no blur reduction at all.
BR just doesn’t work at high speeds.
Yes, if you are playing at comp level, if you are turning fast THERE ARE BLUR with [email protected] ON!
This technology works only when you are looking at slowly moving objects/pictures. Like one in this test http://www.testufo.com/#height=-1&test=photo&photo=quebec.jpg&pps=960&pursuit=0
It moves with 960pixels/sec speed. 960 PER SECOND!!! If your FOV is 106, for example, your 180 will equal 1829 pixels in full HD. With 960/sec pixels speed, it will take 1.9 sec for 180!
With this turning speed you will have no BLUR with [email protected] ON ahahahahahahahaha.
BUT WHO DOES 180 IN ALMOST 2 SECONDS? It’s a time enough for few frags.

So, BR is absolutely useless, and adds THESE FANCY BONUSES to your gaming experience:
1) +Input Lag [equal or less than 1000/refresh rate=??ms] (for example at 144Hz it may be up to 6.94444444ms).
2) +crosstalk/ghosting/overshoot
3) +amplified stutters
4) +flicker
WHAT AN AWESOME TIEKNOLOGEEEE biggrin.gif MUST BUY! MOM I WONT TO GO PRO!
Also kids may cry about and annoy you with links to blurbustes.com, testufo.com, but the truth is:
Blur Reduction looks great when you're staring at high-contrast content with a clear center of attention (like a red UFO flying across a flat background), but it's pointless when you consider the mixed contrast of your average FPS game scene.


G/Free-syncs are useless for gaming. Absolutely.
Tearing? GET HIGH FPS!
Seriously, if your FPS is 250+ (better 333-500+) you just wouldn’t notice tearing.
Kids would tell you about some fluidity and smoothness. Okay, it’s truth but don’t forget about extra input lag (tiny, but we don’t need that) and that you’ll be forced to cap your FPS to 144. For me 144 is not enough, higher FPS = less input lag. (1000/FPS=??ms). If you have capped 144fps it means you have 6.94444444ms of input lag. With 500FPS it would be just 2ms. Huge difference, isn’t it?

So, all this “TIEKNOLOGEEEZ” are just marketing. Same as 12000DPI in mice (interpolated).
But we are smarter than their marketing departments.


Now lets talk about monitors and how to choose the right one.
The situation is so bad I'm afraid It would be really difficult to get a descend one.
What you need to look at? It’s easy:
1) Low input lag and response time
2) Low amount/no ghosting (overshoot %)
3) Picture quality (contrast ratio, color temperature, color accuracy). Contrast ratio is more important than other parameters, because you can't do anything with poor contrast, for example, but poor colors may be calibrated.

OVERALL:
I don't trust BenQ after 2 defective monitors in a row.
PHILIPS has extremely poor build quality (can't get it exactly horizontal, for example, because of weak stand).
AOC has poor contrasts and it's owned by TVP that owns part of PHILIPS..
Eizo/ASUS - using the same panels but just more expensive. And there are many defective 2K IPS monitors from ASUS.
ACER has mostly good reviews, but for some reason it's EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE in my city ACER XB240HA (144Hz 24" TN) costs same as ASUS MG278Q and BenQ XL2730Z (that are 144Hz 27" 2K). This is really strange..
And also there are DELL 144Hz but I know nothing about them and don't think they are highly differs from others.

This problem is really huge. This is not about price segment, as we can see, expensive monitors are bad too.
Getting ASUS MG279Q you have pretty high chance of getting backlight bleeding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB3RlrFCbGk with a WQHD 2560x1440 IPS 144Hz 4ms for $650. What a shame.
Or this fancy new $1150 ACER Z35 [email protected] that can't [email protected] because of poor response time. What a shame again. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_predator_z35.htm
And do you think they engineers did not know that their product wouldn’t be able to work normally at 200Hz? Then knew it! Acer Z35 is a child of marketing. MOM 200 HZ! But such a low response time, using everything higher than 120Hz not really practical. So, honestly this is a 120Hz monitor.

It's so ugly it even becomes funny. Pay so [email protected] chineese ..... Nice.

My next try is Iiyama GB2788HS-B1 and it's promising to be one of the best monitors for competitive gaming, test results are really good: http://us.hardware.info/productinfo/327127/iiyama-g-master-gb2788hs-b1/testresults

-1200:1 contrast ratio
-awesome response time
-good native colour temperature

The only thing is need to be done is calibrating colors, but it's not an issue at all.
And also their monitors usually adjustable to fully get rid of ghosting.

There are also Iiyama GB2488HSU and it’s great in all terms, except of contrast (~700:1). It's a shame, it might be the best of the best monitor on the market if it'll have at least 800-850:1.
BUT, there are new revision came out:
Allow me to represent. GB2488HSU-B2 (second, improved revision of GB2488HSU-B1):

1350:1 contrast ratio
top level responsibility
+ good color temp/color accuracy out of the box
FOR THE SAME PRICE!
http://us.hardware.info/productinfo/329880/iiyama-g-master-red-eagle-gb2488hsu-b2/testresults

I'll test my Iiyama 27" in few days and let you know, guys, is it any good. Iiyama is our last hope biggrin.gif (and LG24GM77 if you can find it in your city)

All 3 in one table: http://us.hardware.info/comparisontable/1569384/geen_username/monitors-comparison-table-7
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 12:04 PM
 
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wowow slow down cowboy, did try this test test ? have you fiddled with the brightness ?
Have you tried gaming at lower than 50/40 fps for lightboost gsync?
Also maybe try this other test.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 12:07 PM
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Now I know you're trolling.

Ever use a CRT before?
it's the exact same blur reduction used.

I used a CRT exclusively (even though I had a 120hz LCD on standby in reserve) until 2012, when the CRT completely broke beyond repair so I know all about how blur reduction works. Lightboost on the VG248QE gave me the same CRT quality motion blur reduction I had been using since the 90's, but the color temp would skyrocket over 10k and the contrast got destroyed. Benq blur reduction was just like the CRT except much better colors than lightboost was, and it's FAR more adjustable. Lower input lag (the tradeoff for no input lag added is more crosstalk from a higher strobe phase setting), blur reduction works at almost every possible refresh rate also.

Yes there is crosstalk. that's why you don't use blur reduction at 144hz, ever. Crosstalk covers half the screen.

You only use blur reduction with vertical total tweaks to lower the crosstalk, and these VT tweaks only work at 128 hz and below (it doesn't work at 76hz; random out of range error).

At 125hz refresh rate, use VT 1497
At 120hz refresh rate, use VT 1500
At 100hz refresh rate, use VT 1500 or 1502
At 91 hz refresh rate, use VT 1498 (Call of duty games with a 91 fps cap)
At 85 hz refresh rate (black ops 3 @ 85hz, 85 fps glass smooth), use VT 1501 (no other VT will work smoothly)

These VT tweaks should apply to any monitor using the Mstar 8556T scaler, including the XL2420Z and XL2411Z and XL2430T.

All of this information is in my blurbusters thread which you conveniently refused to read over before posting this.


On the XL2720Z, *ALL* excessive overdrive ghosting (purple trailing inverse artifacts) can be REMOVED if blur reduction is off by using the profile / AMA toggles (this requires a combination of the AMA low blur reduction on toggle+ a profile switch to blur reduction off). I already mentioned various times here and on the blurbusters forum you've been spamming a lot lately on and the overdrive made near perfect.

On the XL2720Z, most inverse ghosting with blur reduction on can be removed by using an AMA toggle after enabling blur reduction. This works best if contrast is lowered

I already explained this in multiple threads.

Maybe blur reduction simply isn't for you, but I've gamed since 1994 on the internet. Blur reduction (CRT type strobing tech) has made the single MOST significant enjoyment boost in my games out of anything. Upgrading to new hardware (much more expensive) comes after.

Gsync and Freesync improve the gaming quality for players who can not maintain framerate=refresh rate.
The main problem with ULMB is it does not increase voltage to the backlight, this is why 1.0ms persistence is so dark on ULMB monitors. Lightboost and Benq blur reduction all increase voltage to the backlight by about 1.8x when enabled. Not sure why this was removed from ULMB monitors.


I'm not replying to your posts anymore.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 01:51 PM
 
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I dunno man, pc games aren't limited to fast twitch shooters, maybe you should try other game genres to see a difference.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 01:56 PM
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I like being able to read text while scrolling. So Benq Blur Reduction is permanently on for me. Works with 144hz as well. Best of both worlds.

edit: oh and it does remove the blur in fast spins in gaming, unless it's broken for you or something...

Maybe some software issue with enabling ULMB? For Benq Blur Reduction, it's simply a monitor setting. The GPU doesn't even know it's enabled. So it can't mess with the GPU either.

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadjinnSayan View Post

I dunno man, pc games aren't limited to fast twitch shooters, maybe you should try other game genres to see a difference.

This needs to be said to almost every gamer who sets foot in OCN's monitors and displays forum.

With that being said, blur reduction does make a big difference visually. It may not impact your ability to shoot people in games, this will be a debatable topic. But even when moving my 8200 DPI mouse fast, it's clear how much less blur there is with blur reduction on. Will it get you a better K/D compared to not using it? Maybe, maybe not. Does it look a lot more realistic? Yes. Thus I deem it worthwhile. I can never play Shadow Warrior without blur reduction again. On that note, I do seem to perform better with blur reduction enabled in this game. And for immersive gaming it's also incredible.

Also, blur reduction has never amplified any stuttering for me. Flicker with 120 Hz or 144 Hz strobing won't be noticeable to most people or even most gamers.

You didn't provide any real arguments against variable refresh rate. Your comment there was straight up trolling. Both of these technologies will be impressive to most gamers of any kind. I've introduced all sorts of gamers to them and they all want at least one of these technologies now. I can never accept a display without both unless it's OLED, which is worth sacrifices.
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 02:02 PM
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It just doesn't impact your ability to shoot people in games.

Oh it does, if you play twitch shooters. There was this one guy and his KDA going up in CoD or BF or something from when he started using lightboost (an older way to force blur reduction on supported monitors before it was cool).

Only if you play strategic games like CS:GO, would it not matter too much, as the game's not about twitch mechanics so much.

But yeah, I doubt many quake pros will tell you that CRT (which has inbuilt blur reduction) is worse than LCD... or something. I never got to know that scene.

edit: long story short, if your monitor's blur reduction isn't as sharp in rapid motion as your CRT, then the blur reduction implimentation got botched. Seems to happen more often than one might expect... (LCD Blur Reduction can end up highlighting the transitory state between 2 frames, on large parts of the screen, if the timing is done poorly. Need to read up on the model if that happens or not. Mine's pretty perfect on that aspect, at least at 120hz and up. Lower frequency seem to make this problem more common/severe, for some reason?)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

Oh it does, if you play twitch shooters. There was this one guy and his KDA going up in CoD or BF or something from when he started using lightboost (an older way to force blur reduction on supported monitors before it was cool).

Only if you play strategic games like CS:GO, would it not matter too much, as the game's not about twitch mechanics so much.

But yeah, I doubt many quake pros will tell you that CRT/functional blur reduction is worse than LCD...

I suppose it will vary person to person. I'll switch that comment to "may not." I definitely perform better in Shadow Warrior with ULMB on.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-05-2016, 07:13 PM
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Nightmaster47:

I honestly don't know.

I was one of the last pure CRT holdouts until I simply couldn't FIND any more CRT's to buy and had to give up.

I used CRT's EXCLUSIVELY and FPS games since 1994 and didn't move to my first LCD until 2012. It wasn't until the Lightboost hack came out for the VG248QE that I had the old CRT feel back again, but with worse colors. The only way I ever felt that Lightboost was WORSE than my old CRT's was when the framerate dropped BELOW the refresh rate with. It seemed as if CRT's had some sort of natural blurring effect (phosphor decay?) that helped mitigate the sharpness of framerate stutters when the FPS dropped under the refresh rate (not talking about the vsync FPS / 2 without triple buffering). I noticed the stutters were more annoying on the Lightboost monitor and the same applies to benq blur reduction.

if my FPS is equal to the refresh rate at all times with benq blur reduction, then it's *EVERY BIT* as smooth as my old CRT's.
And before you question my credibility:

I used:
1) some old Zeos CTX monitor on my first non commodore PC (486 DX2)
2) some Viewsonic 19" (I think?) back in 1999 after the CTX died completely.
3) I think a Viewsonic 21" until it died and then I moved to a Dell P1130 (sony Trinitron rebadged, forgot what model).
4) Samsung T220 120hz after the Dell broke too much. COULD NOT STAND IT. the blurriness of 120hz @ 120 fps on the LCD felt WORSE than 60 fps 60hz did on any of the CRTs. YUCK.
5) VG248QE with lightboost (starting in 2012 maybe).
6) Benq blur reduction.

Benq blur reduction is EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS THE OLD CRT's, except for overdrive artifacts and crosstalk (CRT's had zero as their response times were in the nanoseconds).

Crosstalk can be mitigated by using Vertical total tweaks (they don't work at 144hz, so avoid using blur reduction at any refresh rate higher than 128hz).

Ghosting can be mitigated by several firmware bugs and enabling AMA high *AFTER* blur reduction is enabled. Ghosting with blur reduction off can be 95% reduced to a almost flawless level. Ghosting with blur reduction on can be reduced greatly but not fully eliminated (strobing exposes what's left of ghosting much more clearly, which is obvious).

Please read this thread again and take your time.
Don't expect to understand all of this in a day.
Give it a week and I think you'll be happy with the monitor.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590


First of all, if you' are turning fast, you WILL get blur. CRT"s operated the SAME WAY
This is why some people used 160hz-180hz refresh rate at 800x600.
The reason is, the higher the refresh rate on a CRT, IF your FPS can keep up with it, the faster you can turn without losing blur detail.
You can see this simply with 60 FPS 60 FPS vsync on vs 120 FPS 120hz vsync on.

Second, you probably don't have the strobe duty (persistence) set low enough, and I don't know if you're using VT tweaks properly.
please read my thread.

For the XL2720Z to function like a CRT, to emulate a *FAST* CRT, you need 1.0ms persistence (Strobe duty=006 IF a VT tweak is used. if a VT tweak is NOT used, 1.0ms persistence is based on the current refresh rate; you can sort of look at this table here:
http://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/BenQ_XL2411Z

But at 144hz refresh rate, 1.0ms persistence is equal to strobe duty 014-015, because 0.069 (refresh rate persistence of 6.9ms divided by 100) x 14 (14 strobe duty) = 0.966 to 1.035.

So for the XL2720Z to emulate a fast CRT, you need 1.0ms persistence with a VT tweak active (strobe duty =006) which may be too dark, even at 100 brightness (it's fine for me though). For the XL2720Z to emulate a slower CRT, you need 2.0ms persistence, which is as you guessed, strobe duty 012 with a VT tweak.

that's all I can tell you. Everything else is in this thread. literally-everything. Everything I know about this monitor.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2590

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-06-2016, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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About G/Free-syncs.

Kids would tell you about some fluidity and smoothness. Okay, it’s truth but don’t forget about extra input lag (tiny, but we don’t need that) and that you’ll be forced to cap your FPS to 144. For me 144 is not enough, higher FPS = less input lag. (1000/FPS=??ms). If you have capped 144fps it means you have 6.94444444ms of input lag. With 500FPS it would be just 2ms. Huge difference, isn’t it?
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