27" vs 24" vs 32" and EIZO vs BenQ Vs Dell Vs Nec for color proofing - Adobe RGB - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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27" vs 24" vs 32" and EIZO vs BenQ Vs Dell Vs Nec for color proofing - Adobe RGB

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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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27" vs 24" vs 32" and EIZO vs BenQ Vs Dell Vs Nec for color proofing - Adobe RGB

Well it's been a long time since I am looking into getting a monitor that suits more than one purpose but I have finally given up. I wanted a nice 32" 4K with Adobe RGB, great uniformity and maybe at least 75Hz that also don't suck for games (casual) and could also maybe support HDR.

Anyway the above thing does not exist or what comes close for the professional features still costs over $2,000 and is not perfect (Asus PA32UC) or you need to go for an Eizo/Nec that cost $3.5K or more...

So I decided that I will go for a 2 screen solution to make things easier. I already use a secondary 24" 1080p monitor (Samsung IPS) so I was thinking of replacing this with something suitable for color proofing prints so I need AdobeRGB. I have narrowed it down to the following choices.

First of all I am really torn between 24" or 27" and that depends on what brand I choose to since pricing differs. The prices below are off Amazon.de and are for reference since they can be found a bit cheaper elsewhere. I also buy without VAT so its minus 19%.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eizo ColorEdge CS2420 24" 1920X1200 - EUR 629

Dell UP2716D - 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 620

Benq SW2700PT 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 678


With these I stay in the 650 Euros range and the only decision to be made falls into larger vs higher quality category and the most important thing here is Panel Uniformity. In other words and after research going with the EIZO is my best bet for great uniformity. On the other hand going with the BenQ I might be lucky, get a good panel and end up with more monitor for the money. The Dell worries me since it is older and browsing through Dell's forum I read some angry comments along with some negatives in several reviews - it is the best looking style those wise on my desk (you can see it)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Eizo ColorEdge CS2730 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 1029

BenQ SW271 27" 3840X2160 - EUR 1198

NEC Multisync PA272W 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 1024


Selecting any of these requires more spending and some would argue that I can get a 32" 4K model for less. However, I need Adobe RGB and this will be a SECONDARY monitor used for color proofing. I will get a 32" or larger 4K display to be used as my primary monitor next year when the new models come out. One thing at a time.

So the dilemma here is whether I should go for a 2560X1440 display from NEC or Eizo with great panel uniformity or play the lottery and get the BenQ that is 4K and use it with 200% scaling.

Now if I go for the BenQ I am approaching a price point that makes me wonder whether I should go for the higher end model the BenQ SW320 which is a 32" model and costs 1400 Euros which is only 200 Euros more. It does look to me like a waste of 1200 Euros if not getting the 32" model but then it all becomes a vicious circle (NEC or EIZO 27" very close to the BenQ 27" 4K and so on).

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 06:51 AM
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I'm not sure what they make in the adobeRGB range, 31.5" is a stretch even for most IPS unless you sit far than usual at which point it will be the size of a 27" at regular viewing position.
4k for photos is nice and so is having in monitor calibration as in what I call hardware calibration where you don't use in software(OS) color profiles but they are updated in the monitor itself. These are even harder to find.

Not sure how great would PD3220U be since it's so large and no hardware calibration. Only SW and PV line list hardware calibration available.

It's a steep price jump to 4k in adobeRGB :/ There are specialized forums for photographers/and other image creators where you may find way more info about these kind of monitors than on OCN, but I don't remember name of the forums, should not be hard to find when searching for info on these kind of monitors.

In EU you could always get one and if you don't like it, return it. Would give you a better idea of what you want once you see it.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey JackCY you must remember the conversation on the other thread I guess (hint: sitting distance)..

This one is for a second monitor that I have decided to buy and the focus lies on professional features such as Adobe RGB coverage that I need for work. A new project came up meanwhile (print jobs) and now I need to certainly get a pro monitor for color proofing along with an xRite iDisplay Pro. The value of the project will cover it too.

I have read many reviews and visited several discussion threads on the models above in specialized forums that is why I picked them out. As you can see I did not choose the PD3220U (no AdobeRGB) since you need to get one of the Photographers monitors from BenQ to get AdobeRGB. Their best are the SW series such as the SW271 (27" 4K) and SW320 (32" 4K) that both cover my requirements.

The thing is that by going EIZO or NEC you will get a uniform panel and all the reviews praise them for this along with anyone on the afformentioned discussion forums. However, with the same money a NEC or EIZO @ 27" 1440p costs you can get a BenQ 27" 4K or for about 200 Euros more their Flagship 4K monitor....What worries me is panel lottery with them with regards to brightness uniformity or leaks/clouding etc. Other than that the BenQs offer more for the bang than the entry level EIZOs or NECs (still Adobe RGB though) and are true 10bit panels with 3DLUTs vs 8bit+FRC & 1DLUTs on the above Eizo/NECs.

I have never returned a monitor and I will most probably buy from Amazon.de while I live in Greece...do you happen to know if they are good with returns? It might be worth it to get the BenQ (either) and in case I get a "turd" panel I simply return it.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 10:26 AM
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I remember. I'm on Q3279VWFD8 31.5" IPS right now 75cm away and to get it there I had to push it as far back as I can at the moment. Even IPS at this distance and size is not really for graphics editing not on PRO level, for home, sure but not pro and I doubt the 1000+ EUR IPS are much better with viewing angles.

The PD3220U is new and has 95% DCI-P3 advertised, no calibration in hardware, other PD don't have wide gamut. So you should be able to use AdobeRGB with it, only software calibration though. PD is more of a middle ground for home use I think.

They all often use the same panels what differs is their electronics (OSD, firmware, options, factory calibration quality). The EIZO, NEC and same/similar specs monitor from other brands is likely the same panel.

If it's true 10bit that's nice but one needs Quadro/Fire card to get the drivers that support 10bit They kind of lock it out of consumer cards (GeForce, Polaris/VEGA), Nvidia does for sure, AMD usually people have a bit better luck getting it to work more with 10bit. Probably know more than me here. Something about Photoshop needing OpenGL 10bit support which is missing on GeForce drivers.
1D LUT seems outdated to me. BenQ may not be as old staple in professional oriented monitors but they do try to enter pro and office markets with nice products in the last decade.

If it was me I would try SW271 for pro use if you are sure you can't be without hardware calibration and need the "best". For sRGB the PD2700U is a good choice at least for home use but not for you. I like EIZO and NEC but they don't really seem to compete and care anymore (about regular people, all business business customers) so I think there is space for BenQ and other to offer same/similar at better value. EIZO CG is nice, CS seems dead. PA272W is dead, can you even buy it? I don't see anyone selling it, no stock anywhere. PA271Q-BK-SV replaces it and both seems to advertise 3D LUT, it is available and cost is similar.

Well Amazon.de is fine with returns, I would suggest asking first to be sure and include your country, with mine it's fine and I think it should be fine to all EU. Speaking English to them is OK as long as you write during day hours otherwise my luck with their customer service is lower (they also have people with local language of countries they ship to, they replied to me once in local but I don't write to them in local). As far as refunding return shipping goes they refund 8.40 EUR which is low for shipping a monitor (often 2-3x of that using cheapest available shipping, insured) so what you do is send them copy of invoice you paid for the return shipping and they will refund you that. Which means you could get the monitor try it for 2 weeks, though maybe Amazon allows 4 weeks but I always tell them within 2 weeks (often same or next day of receiving when it's defective) and then it will show you until when you have to send it back (often 1 month), officially the free return shipping (refund of it) is only probably covered when you decide within 2 weeks of delivery.

They do get eventually suspicious if you roll a few monitors consecutively, as in trying to get a defect free high refresh monitor when they have terrible lottery, but so far it was OK to write them back and explain that monitors were defective and were indeed returned as such with descriptions of defects or other unacceptable quality issues.

Also have to remember that buying on Amazon.de does not always mean buying from Amazon.de, there are many sellers on there so you have to check details and select the seller you want, if you want to deal with Amazon.de and be covered by their policies and so on it has to be sold by Amazon.de, the policies for 3rd party sellers are not bad but you will have to deal with the 3rd party seller to resolve returns, refunds, exchanges, some are also sold as "fullfilled by Amazon" then those should be handled by Amazon.de as if it was sold by Amazon.de (it probably ships from their warehouses too and they simply handle those items for 3rd party sellers).

Other German etailers also offer free return shipping but you have to ask to be sure. computeruniverse.de (at least to my country), caseking.de?

Starting return with Amazon is simple since it's all automated on their web, only to get full refund of shipping you need to write them. Or if you return multiple monitors and deal with replacements instead of refunds then sure it is a bit of emailing to get replacements as they are not always offered via the web interface when doing a return. Or they get things messed up when you return 3+ monitors including all replacements and it may take them long time to refund you so write them and they will sort it out, ask you for a statement that you have indeed returned it all.

Christmas will be busy for Amazon to process returns especially after holidays, people return unwanted gifts. Expect delays, plus return shipping costs go up with couriers in December as they get slammed with shipping christmas gifts and overall it's a selling season = tons of shipping from shops, between companies, from people, ...

Try SW271, if you don't like it, return it, maybe you will want the bigger variant or go with 1440p only (doubtful, no one likes to go down in resolution) or EIZO/NEC if the panel used in BenQ seems not as good as hoped.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
I remember. I'm on Q3279VWFD8 31.5" IPS right now 75cm away and to get it there I had to push it as far back as I can at the moment. Even IPS at this distance and size is not really for graphics editing not on PRO level, for home, sure but not pro and I doubt the 1000+ EUR IPS are much better with viewing angles.
Well we don't have many other options here do we? Even the 30,000 Reference HDR Sony monitor uses IPS I think.


Quote:
The PD3220U is new and has 95% DCI-P3 advertised, no calibration in hardware, other PD don't have wide gamut. So you should be able to use AdobeRGB with it, only software calibration though. PD is more of a middle ground for home use I think.
I am looking into this but it does not seem to be available yet and can't find reviews..It's on my watch list along the SW versions.


Quote:
They all often use the same panels what differs is their electronics (OSD, firmware, options, factory calibration quality). The EIZO, NEC and same/similar specs monitor from other brands is likely the same panel.
It's just that the quality control is much better and panel uniformity is always not a lottery based on all the comments, reviews etc I read. However, the higher end models are outrageously priced.


Quote:
If it's true 10bit that's nice but one needs Quadro/Fire card to get the drivers that support 10bit They kind of lock it out of consumer cards (GeForce, Polaris/VEGA), Nvidia does for sure, AMD usually people have a bit better luck getting it to work more with 10bit. Probably know more than me here. Something about Photoshop needing OpenGL 10bit support which is missing on GeForce drivers.
I am aware of this and you do need a Quadro (even entry level to use it). I have a workaround in mind using a second PC on one of its Display ports with a Qauadro just for color proofing. It also supports dual gamut display simultaneously (split screen) which is convenient.

Quote:
1D LUT seems outdated to me. BenQ may not be as old staple in professional oriented monitors but they do try to enter pro and office markets with nice products in the last decade.
Yes, it is but 3D LUT as I understand it is more important in video however why pay for old tech when new one is available. That is the problem with the entry level Eizos & NECs.


Quote:
If it was me I would try SW271 for pro use if you are sure you can't be without hardware calibration and need the "best". For sRGB the PD2700U is a good choice at least for home use but not for you. I like EIZO and NEC but they don't really seem to compete and care anymore (about regular people, all business business customers) so I think there is space for BenQ and other to offer same/similar at better value. EIZO CG is nice, CS seems dead. PA272W is dead, can you even buy it? I don't see anyone selling it, no stock anywhere. PA271Q-BK-SV replaces it and both seems to advertise 3D LUT, it is available and cost is similar.
This is what I am going to dare....after all who said it is easy today to built a DIY workstation.....
Eizo CS is just entry level nothing more nothing less, but color accurate it is based on my research/reviews but it cost a lot and it is a worse display than the BenQs I mention save for panel uniformity if you get a "Lemon" BenQ.



Quote:
Well Amazon.de is fine with returns, I would suggest asking first to be sure and include your country, with mine it's fine and I think it should be fine to all EU. Speaking English to them is OK as long as you write during day hours otherwise my luck with their customer service is lower (they also have people with local language of countries they ship to, they replied to me once in local but I don't write to them in local). As far as refunding return shipping goes they refund 8.40 EUR which is low for shipping a monitor (often 2-3x of that using cheapest available shipping, insured) so what you do is send them copy of invoice you paid for the return shipping and they will refund you that. Which means you could get the monitor try it for 2 weeks, though maybe Amazon allows 4 weeks but I always tell them within 2 weeks (often same or next day of receiving when it's defective) and then it will show you until when you have to send it back (often 1 month), officially the free return shipping (refund of it) is only probably covered when you decide within 2 weeks of delivery.

They do get eventually suspicious if you roll a few monitors consecutively, as in trying to get a defect free high refresh monitor when they have terrible lottery, but so far it was OK to write them back and explain that monitors were defective and were indeed returned as such with descriptions of defects or other unacceptable quality issues.

Also have to remember that buying on Amazon.de does not always mean buying from Amazon.de, there are many sellers on there so you have to check details and select the seller you want, if you want to deal with Amazon.de and be covered by their policies and so on it has to be sold by Amazon.de, the policies for 3rd party sellers are not bad but you will have to deal with the 3rd party seller to resolve returns, refunds, exchanges, some are also sold as "fullfilled by Amazon" then those should be handled by Amazon.de as if it was sold by Amazon.de (it probably ships from their warehouses too and they simply handle those items for 3rd party sellers).

Other German etailers also offer free return shipping but you have to ask to be sure. computeruniverse.de (at least to my country), caseking.de?

Starting return with Amazon is simple since it's all automated on their web, only to get full refund of shipping you need to write them. Or if you return multiple monitors and deal with replacements instead of refunds then sure it is a bit of emailing to get replacements as they are not always offered via the web interface when doing a return. Or they get things messed up when you return 3+ monitors including all replacements and it may take them long time to refund you so write them and they will sort it out, ask you for a statement that you have indeed returned it all.

Christmas will be busy for Amazon to process returns especially after holidays, people return unwanted gifts. Expect delays, plus return shipping costs go up with couriers in December as they get slammed with shipping christmas gifts and overall it's a selling season = tons of shipping from shops, between companies, from people, ...

Try SW271, if you don't like it, return it, maybe you will want the bigger variant or go with 1440p only (doubtful, no one likes to go down in resolution) or EIZO/NEC if the panel used in BenQ seems not as good as hoped.

Thanks for the heads up...It looks like it is better to buy in January (unless a deal comes up sooner) if I am going to get aboard the "Monitor Returns Train".....given the time limit (30 days etc)....Or buy next week and make a fast judgment. I am gong to check how much it costs to return such a box to them by courier on Monday just so I know.

I will decide then whether I want to check the SW320 or the SW271 (I of course prefer the SW320).....

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Correction on the reference to SONY above - the Sony BVM-X300 uses an OLED panel, it's 30" Cinema 4K and costs $30,000....

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 02:52 PM
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Last time I saw that OLED Sony it was discontinued/unavailable, dead as a fish. Guess they started to sell it after all, to like movie studios and such super low quantity if not even made to order XD

It's OK to buy now, just shipping back may cost an extra 4 EUR and getting refund from Amazon may take longer if your return it for refund. There are also many Amazon sites in EU, Italy I think and so on that are probably closer to you, but it doesn't mean much anyway, they ship certain products from certain locations, or where ever they have excess stock. It can really arrive from anywhere in EU where they have a warehouse.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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The SONY is something totally out of relevance of course but I just saw it mentioned and be used on a pro-video-grading forum hence the reference.

Anyway, everything leads me to the SW320 but since the PD3220U was announced that replaces the PD3200 that came out about the same time as the SW320 maybe its replacement is about to be announced as well. The PD3220U also has an Adobe RGB mode.

Monitornerds notes that the PD27000U is available for pre-order @ $539.99 so the PD320U might have a good price and an equal or better panel than the SW320 (although the SW is the better product line).

Maybe I should wait and keep watching for reviews and then decide which buy button to press. I would hate to buy the SW320 and then have a new model come out 2 months down the line but new models are even riskier for bugs or panel issues. What a messy market...

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 07:15 AM
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SW320 hardware calibration
PD3220U NO hardware calibration but probably considerably cheaper.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-26-2018, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been reading a lot these days on specialized forums/redit/articles/adobe and everyone has the same concerns. There is no perfect option at this price range so I going to do it and get an iDisplay Pro too. The comparable monitors are the Dell 3216Q and Asus PA329Q (older model).For some hours I was also considering the Asus PA32UC-K but I am not sure the price premium is worth it for the HDR and better aesthetics.

LOL that is how you end up with a $3.500 NEC/EIZO but honestly I don't really need it for my work.

I was also looking for info on upcoming 32" 4K panels with AdobeRGB and can't find anything new coming anytime soon, save for some Micro-LED info which I guess will cost a lot.

The prudent choice of action is to get the SW320 and in the worst case scenario return it if I get a bad panel. Do you think I should also consider the Asus PA329Q? It does not have DP 1.4 no HOOD and no PUCK (hot keys remote).

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