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For those who went from IPS to VA

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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 11:02 PM
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Ok, so I've had my Overlord x270OC sitting next to my new Samsung CHG70 (32in) for a few days now and I'll share my impressions:

disclaimer: My IPS is a few years old now, and it's going to be inferior to newer ones in some respects.

So firstly, this particular IPS is not up to par with newer ones as far as pixel response. Even without strobing on, the Samsung has better motion performance. The strobing cleans up the motion pretty nicely on the Samsung, making it clearly superior to the IPS. It's not perfect, but it's a difference maker for sure. A newer IPS with strobing is probably going to have better motion, but I can't imagine that most people would even be able to notice a difference unless you were really looking for it. That being said, I don't have the latest HFR IPS to compare it to, so the most I can say is that I feel like the motion on this particular VA panel is pretty solid when strobing is used.

Colors: pretty much a wash for sRGB/Rec 709. Any difference here is going to come down to calibration. I have both of them calibrated (i1d3 and DisplayCal) and both look great/accurate. I don't expect newer IPS panels to be any better than mine in that regard as it calibrates accurately and covers full sRGB color space.

Viewing angles: The IPS does have better viewing angles, so that might be a concern depending on your use case. The Samsung does have a sweet spot that's pretty easy to stay in and the edges/corners don't shift any if you are in it. For me personally it's going to be a non-issue.

Contrast: Noticeably better contrast on the Samsung with the lights out, not really noticeable with lights on.

IMO contrast is where the VA shines and for me personally, makes it worth having over a comparable IPS. The ways in which the VA are worse than the IPS seem pretty minor to me personally, but the VA contrast improvement is a major thing when playing with lights out.

so there's my 2 cents.

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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-21-2018, 11:43 PM
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Thank you for your review. @ttnuagmada

You seem to look at things very similar to what I'm worrying about in monitors, so I'm happy that you shared what you're thinking about VA. I also calibrate my monitor with a colorimeter. The colors getting warped depending on angles drives me crazy so I was always too scared to try something else than IPS. According to what you describe, VA should work fine for my situation as well, I don't move around much at my desk here.
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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 12:59 AM
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Another thing I'll note about Samsung panels is they seem to just have a more overall "crisper" or "cleaner" picture than LG panels. I'm not necessarily saying "sharper", or "more accurate", but there's something different about the way Samsung's handle colors that they seem clearer. Could be all in my head, though.
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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again guys, in particualr ttnuagmada. That's what I assumed about calibrated VA and IPS and with the same color space... the only real difference is the contrast and viewing angle performance.

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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 05:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
Hah! That one was funny.

Son, all we get is edge. The few models that come with an actual, usable array cost north of $1500.

Also, it's not the LED's that are expensive; it's the electronics involved in controlling them.
LEDs and controlling chips cost cents. It's only low quantity single units that you want to buy cost whole $/EUR. In bulk these things are dirt cheap especially compared to the price of monitors. Sure the LED cost ads up when you use 1000 of them and they are of decent quality but I highly doubt it's suddenly $500 for LED backlight array as current crazy pricing would have you believe. Or that the processor cost $500 as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post
I'm looking for a new monitor, an ultra-wide actually. My current monitor, IPS, has been great for these past 10 years. The only nit pick is the black level and contrast. For that reason, I was looking into VA panels... less than .10 nits black level when brightness is 120 nits or less. My current calibrated black level is like .17 nits... best is .14, but screen is way too dark. I see some VA panels go all the way bellow .05 nits. Most of my use is in a dark room... like pitch black when watching movies.

Anyways, for those that have IPS and VA, do you notice a lot of color shift or anything really "bad" like a lot of gamma shifting with viewing angles between the two?

Since I'm still sticking with SDR, the only real improvement for me would be black levels, contrast ratio, aspect ratio, resolution.

Anyone have a 1080p 34" ultra-wide? I might get one of those if it's not too blurry, but I'd prefer a 1440p.
For those who went from IPS to VA and back?

Roughly black level, contrast:
TN 0.3, 700:1
IPS 0.2, 1400:1
VA 0.1, 2800:1

It's not a big difference between IPS and VA black level and contrast, 2x is noticeable yes but nothing impressive. If they would use glow removing filter on monitor sized panels then IPS would be king, but with the glow most people get annoyed that corners have lower contrast.
Local dimming is the way to go but those are rare, often limited in number of zones and speed of control.

Yes I notice plenty bad on VA compared to IPS Especially at an angle, on sides of monitor when using it. VA has poor color viewing angles, often poor black viewing angles and poor glow, Samsung HG70 tends to have a little better color viewing angles but awful black and glow, AUO VA 31.5" 1440p 144Hz has worse color viewing angles but better black and minimal glow. HG70 comes with local dimming 8 zones, limited but nice to have anyway, curved and that is a big no no.
Almost all VA smear blacks, badly, only some VA TVs may actually have good enough panel and OD according to rtings that they may not smear blacks.
The shift of image on VA occurs in all directions, circular where as on TN it's in 1 direction, this is mostly for the blacks viewing angles. With most VA you get a small perfect looking center image but the rest is way too different and it gets annoying as you tiny bit move this perfect center follows you on screen. IPS doesn't have infinite viewing angles either but they are much better and this issue of center following your vision is minimized.

1080p is to be avoided nowadays really, especially ultrawide.

You are missing 1 important difference: response times, VA is often terribly slow with out of blacks transitions and this is noticeable even in movies, browsing web, ... for me it's unusably slow because it's in the range of 20ms+, often around 40ms.

If you want to see it side by side I made these comparisons:

On VA you get this smearing, ghosting, colored trails, etc. It really is visible when watching movies, web, games, ...
On a 24fps movie played back on 144Hz monitor and recorded at 60fps it takes 3 frames for the ghosting/smearing to go away, that's 50ms and about same as 1 movie frame 1/24= 41.67ms. It is really that slow, 27" HG70 Samsung VA 40-50ms for out of blacks transitions

Also HG70 Samsung strobing has crap ton of crosstalk making it unusable. Otherwise yes strobing is great sadly only very very few implementations are calibrated or adjustable enough to be usable and not have crosstalk. Samsung blew it big time, they even use the local dimming zones with it but still could not be bothered to minimize crosstalk and you get a lot of double images especially middle, bottom of screen and when transition times are slow.

If someone thinks their VA doesn't smear... drag this in game screenshot around your screen:
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Last edited by JackCY; 12-22-2018 at 05:35 AM.
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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 06:15 AM
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From my experience, every VA monitor I've had was smearing a lot. Some more, some less. It widely depends on overdrive used. Also, every VA I've had, had stuck or dead pixels which might be unlucky but this is how it was. That said - I've had iiyama amva+ monitors, benq older and nwere like EW277hdr. Never used 144hz VA but I suspect response times are not magically better.
With IPS - coming from either TN(had few 240hz monitors last years too) or VA, I always find myself taking few days of use to "stop adjusting" my head like I always do with TN or VA.

With TN and VA I always find myself shifting my head around to find the sweet spot. After months or years, You are doing this uncontrollably and not think about it. With IPS, You feel this great freedom of NOT having to adjust position to a monitor. Just be sure You have height adjustable stand and that the monitor middle part is at the height of Your eyes to minimize glow and it's good.

Also, when it comes to contrast. In dark, there is no contest - VA wins. Nowadays, VA monitors are a bit cloudy and glowy but still darker than IPS. But here is the thing - DO NOT GAME IN DARK ROOM! it is bad for Your eyes and makes every monitor look worse than it should. I always use computer/console with some light in the room. 800 lumens ceiling light or corner standing light, no matter. Just play in medium lit room with monitor set to to 120cd and it's all good.
Playing in daylight or with artificial light in the room, greatly reduces the difference between ips and va when it comes to contrast to the point that my HP 27ea(glossy ips) and Benq Ew277hdr looked near identical contrast wise, with only differences being gamma shift on benq, smearing on benq and right, bottom corner glow in HP.

Also - Gloss helps a lot with perceived contrast. Glossy screen coating makes black appear much darker. That said - there are no more glossy monitors. Last one is HP 27ea... and it's only a 1080p 27" ips sadly. I want to get 4k monitor but all are pretty matte (looking for recommendations on 4k ps4 monitor!)

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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 06:15 AM
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The AOC Q3279VWF is the best VA monitor right now imo.
It has a lot of smearing in dark games and only 75hz, but the input lag is fine compared to something like a Samsung C34F791.

Contrast ratio of around 4000:1, almost glossy coating (pretty much the best on the entire monitor market). This cheap monitor manages to create a better atmosphere in games than any other monitor I tried so far. VA monitors with a contrast ratio of 2500:1 (Samsung) are not VA monitors to me.
However, it's simply not fast enough for someone who is used to 144hz TN. Especially the smearing really bothers me in some games.

Seems like Innolux is my only hope now. The right balance between performance and image quality is what matters.

Last edited by 12345us3r; 12-22-2018 at 06:19 AM.
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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Roughly black level, contrast:
TN 0.3, 700:1
IPS 0.2, 1400:1
VA 0.1, 2800:1
There isn't a single gaming IPS panel that measures much above 1000:1 contrast. 1400:1 is definitely an outlier and absolutely not typical.

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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 05:43 PM
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Most monitors with an AHVA (IPS) panel have like 1200-1400, so yeah, it's pretty common for everything that's not TN.
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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-22-2018, 05:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 12345us3r View Post
Most monitors with an AHVA (IPS) panel have like 1200-1400, so yeah, it's pretty common for everything that's not TN.
There are a couple out there, but it is absolutely not common by any stretch and you can pretty well expect any gaming IPS to not break 1100:1. Hell there are plenty that measure under 1000:1.

Here's the newest AHVA on the market (not even on the market) for reference.

Last edited by ttnuagmada; 12-22-2018 at 05:53 PM.
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