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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Vsync is not LFC LOL.

Below VRR = LFC when VRR range allows. Above VRR = tearing and the best way to solve that is to use Fast/Enhanced sync not Vsync. Never use the bloody awful Vsync, ever.
GeForce and input lag... nothing new.

And don't use outside of game frame limiters, they stall the game thread and it's an injection hack essentially. You're only lucky this has gotten common and the common software such as RTSS, ReShade is whitelisted from cheat protections etc. but not always, and sometimes it can make games crash too or they won't even start with any overlay or injection.
I am not talking about Low Frametime Compensation which doubles the refresh rate below the adaptive floor on compatible monitors.

So what would you rather people do on games that don't have in game limiters to keep it below the Adaptive limit? Also what if the game dosen't go above the VRR limit but is really close to it and you get tearing?

You're basically contradicting every blurbuster guide, every recommendation by the admins, by the members on that forum, and the video that was posted?

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gs...nd-settings/8/

Quote:
Say the system can maintain an average framerate just above the maximum refresh rate, and instead of an FPS limit being applied to avoid V-SYNC-level input lag, Fast Sync is enabled on top of G-SYNC. In this scenario, G-SYNC is disabled 99% of the time, and Fast Sync, with very few excess frames to work with, not only has more input lag than G-SYNC would at a lower framerate, but it can also introduce uneven frame pacing (due to dropped frames), causing recurring microstutter. Further, even if the framerate could be sustained 5x above the refresh rate, Fast Sync would (at best) only match G-SYNC latency levels, and the uneven frame pacing (while reduced) would still occur.

That’s not to say there aren’t any benefits to Fast Sync over V-SYNC on a standard display (60Hz at 300 FPS, for instance), but pairing Fast Sync with uncapped G-SYNC is effectively a waste of a G-SYNC monitor, and an appropriate FPS limit should always be opted for instead.
https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gs...nd-settings/8/



The only time V-Sync + G-Sync came close to V-Sync + No G-Sync is when you let the FPS go ABOVE the refresh rate of the monitor..

He also stated in the video that to get no tearing WITHOUT V-Sync and G-SYNC ENABLED, you have to set a lower framerate limit..
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 10:39 AM
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60Hz monitor with Gsync (or any other VRR) + Vsync when you run 100fps ==> stuck at crappy Vsync with all it's stutter and lag
60Hz monitor with Gsync (or any other VRR) + Fast/Enhanced sync when you run 100fps ==> stuck at crappy Fast/Enhanced sync with all it's stutter but minimal lag as the application doesn't get choked and you're getting last full frame not some old frame and sleepy time as Vsync does

Sure on 144Hz+ it doesn't matter much what over VRR handling do you run if it's Fast/Enhanced sync or Vsync as the lag from Vsync isn't as terrible.
The best you can do is have a steady output from the application to stay inside VRR. Adding outside injected limiters always cases some issues and lags.

He also runs the tests conveniently at 138fps limited, how about measurements of 144Hz monitor by running a 200fps limit? So that it can actually be shown what lags how much when you go out of VRR. But that's a completely different video.

Ideally you want your application to stay in VRR range at all times. But, they don't make game engines that way yet with dynamic quality settings and target performance with hard limits at least on upper end.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Sure on 144Hz+ it doesn't matter much what over VRR handling do you run if it's Fast/Enhanced sync or Vsync as the lag from Vsync isn't as terrible.
I'm more sensitive to the stutter from Fastsync than to the input lag from V-sync. In my specific case, at 165Hz, the latter is preferable. So, I'd say it DOES matter what you choose, especially when V-sync is needed for optimal G-sync functionality. Of course, I always run VRR exclusively (read: framerate never exceeds 155-160 in any application). I do this with in-game framerate limiters when available or RTSS as needed.

You mention "some issues and lags", but that's not the case at all with RTSS. Lag is a frame maximum (which, at 155-160 FPS, is around 6.4 ms - inconsequential), and it pretty much always works.

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
60Hz monitor with Gsync (or any other VRR) + Vsync when you run 100fps ==> stuck at crappy Vsync with all it's stutter and lag
60Hz monitor with Gsync (or any other VRR) + Fast/Enhanced sync when you run 100fps ==> stuck at crappy Fast/Enhanced sync with all it's stutter but minimal lag as the application doesn't get choked and you're getting last full frame not some old frame and sleepy time as Vsync does

Sure on 144Hz+ it doesn't matter much what over VRR handling do you run if it's Fast/Enhanced sync or Vsync as the lag from Vsync isn't as terrible.
The best you can do is have a steady output from the application to stay inside VRR. Adding outside injected limiters always cases some issues and lags.

He also runs the tests conveniently at 138fps limited, how about measurements of 144Hz monitor by running a 200fps limit? So that it can actually be shown what lags how much when you go out of VRR. But that's a completely different video.

Ideally you want your application to stay in VRR range at all times. But, they don't make game engines that way yet with dynamic quality settings and target performance with hard limits at least on upper end.
Finally we mostly agree on something.

Well he did test G-Sync/Freesync + V-Sync + 300FPS at the very bottom of the graphs, and the results show that it's almost as bad as No VRR + V-Sync.

So yes, stay within your VRR range.


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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 07:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Axaion View Post
battlenonsense did a video about gsync on freesync monitors actually, funny enough he says do -not- use v-sync + g sync, as you will get vsync input lag
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L42nx6ubpfg
You literally just said what battlenonsense said a million times in the same video you are referencing confusing people and what NOT to do.

You SHOULD use V-Sync PLUS G-Sync but AFTER you cap your FPS BELOW the monitors MAX refresh rate.

I have no idea how many times I have posted that simple sentence and people still screw it up.

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 01:12 PM
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I use Gsync + Vsync via NVCP + RTSS frame rate limiter to always stay well within VRR range (about 8fps under the limit) and it's always worked for me for years. Yes I'm well aware that RTSS does add a tiny bit of input lag but I'm not "pr0 g4mer" enough to actually notice it.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 03:51 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MistaSparkul View Post
I use Gsync + Vsync via NVCP + RTSS frame rate limiter to always stay well within VRR range (about 8fps under the limit) and it's always worked for me for years. Yes I'm well aware that RTSS does add a tiny bit of input lag but I'm not "pr0 g4mer" enough to actually notice it.
It's not like a lot of pro gamers would be able to tell a difference of 4-6 ms at 144+ Hz in a blind test consistently, anyway.

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bo3alwa View Post
Enable vsync. You will not get input-lag from that as long as your frame rate is capped below the maximum refresh rate.
I found this thread from a google search. I have the same problem as OP, but I'm using freesync. I don't have any problem enabling vsync (enhanced sync) if necessary, but why is it necessary with the fps capped belong the max freesync range? If I'm in the freesync range, why would I be getting tearing at all on the demo when freesync is enabled without vsync?
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by lolwatpear View Post
I found this thread from a google search. I have the same problem as OP, but I'm using freesync. I don't have any problem enabling vsync (enhanced sync) if necessary, but why is it necessary with the fps capped belong the max freesync range? If I'm in the freesync range, why would I be getting tearing at all on the demo when freesync is enabled without vsync?
Vsync on was found in some games to produce less input lag according to blur busters and it was by a very small margin. In some cases it helps freesync quite a bit. Pretty easy to figure out if it applies to you or not.
Really all you need to do (for most of us) is apply a framerate limit and enable freesync.
NVinspector allows you to limit the framerate with the driver. If you have afterburner running you should probably just use RTSS since overvolting in AB can cause issues with NVI.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 04:47 PM
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Limit of 73fps on a 75Hz monitors is of course going to spit out frames that are jumping over 75fps. The limit is often made that it adjusts the sleep time of next frame not of current frame (which would add other issues, stutter, improper timing really) based on previous frametime.
If you want to run near refresh limit with no tearing you need to use either fast/enhanced sync or Vsync.

People often think that if they set an FPS limit that no frame will go above it but that's not how it works.
Lets say fps (although normally this is all done in times = frame times not fps because computer gives you time and you can calculate fps from that if you want to):
limit 73, max 75Hz

frame fps
0 70
1 72
2 74 above limit of 73 ==> sleep a little before calculating next frame
3 100 above limit of 73 ==> damn it sleep some more! again
4 65 below limit ==> don't sleep again
5 ...

The frame times/fps can be all over the place, GPU do not have static fixed performance, they adjust their performance, the scene changes all the time, other loads on your PC, ...

Last edited by JackCY; 03-06-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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