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post #91 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 10:01 PM
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I'm actually looking for an upgrade to my XB271HU: Will the 27GL850 be this? Or would be better the AD27QD?
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post #92 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 12:04 AM
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Read reviews.Rtings compared these monitors and LG 27GL850 is probably only tiny better then XB271.For me not even worth thinking about upgrading.
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post #93 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 03:32 AM
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https://www.oled-info.com/digitimes-...-printing-line
https://www.oled-info.com/ihs-ink-je...n-process-2020

That's interesting, JOLED is not the only one gearing up for monitor production in 2020. AUO also sees OLED as a commercially viable solution now and is beginning building their own OLED print line.

Quote:
Production will begin at a rate of around 105,000 yearly substrates (209,000 sqm) in 2020, but will grow 12-fold within 4 years
2020-2024 will be the period where we transition from LCD monitors to OLED.


Last edited by Leopardi; 08-17-2019 at 03:35 AM.
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post #94 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 03:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Leopardi View Post
https://www.oled-info.com/digitimes-...-printing-line
https://www.oled-info.com/ihs-ink-je...n-process-2020

That's interesting, JOLED is not the only one gearing up for monitor production in 2020. AUO also sees OLED as a commercially viable solution now and is beginning building their own OLED print line.



2020-2024 will be the period where we transition from LCD monitors to OLED.
Interesting. But surely we can expect Samsung to use Mini LED until Micro LED is viable instead. Don't expect the availability of a few AUO based OLED monitors to change much for the consumer desktop monitor market, i'd expect it to be in a couple of overly expensive Asus and Acer monitors.. while mini led slowly replaces normal led in most price ranges, especially among the freesync monitors.

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post #95 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 04:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lexi is Dumb View Post
Interesting. But surely we can expect Samsung to use Mini LED until Micro LED is viable instead. Don't expect the availability of a few AUO based OLED monitors to change much for the consumer desktop monitor market, i'd expect it to be in a couple of overly expensive Asus and Acer monitors.. while mini led slowly replaces normal led in most price ranges, especially among the freesync monitors.
People buying those $2000 monitors surely aren't going to pick up a FALD (or a slightly extended FALD with mini leds) with terrible haloing and BLB and glow, if there is an OLED solution available.

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post #96 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-17-2019, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Leopardi View Post
JOLED is still on track for their monitor sized high refresh rate e-sports release in 2020?
Searching and all I find is 2020 start of production expected at 220k units/month, starting at half that. (which isn't that different to 4x larger TVs being made at 60-70k units/month)

Quote:
Although OLED panels have been produced through film-film printing technology, the output is very low). Starting in 2020 or 2021, Chinese OLED manufacturers will catch up with JOLED and invest heavily in mass production. Inkjet printing has the potential to reduce the production cost of OLED panels and is primarily suitable for the production of large and medium-sized panels. IHS expects a 65-inch 4K OLED TV to cost approximately $585 (LGD’s 10G production line of OLEDs); but if an inkjet printing process is used, the overall cost will drop to $441 (cost reduction is near 25%).

https://www.gizchina.com/2019/07/02/...els-next-year/
Which from the previous linked news was same reason Samsung, LG, etc. were abandoning LCD and focusing on their premium "QLED" (still a bloody LCD Samsung!) and OLED. Because Chinese factories are price competitive and fill in the market fast for a lot of the non premium products, making it difficult to profit as much as they are used to. Hence they want to focus on largest panels for most premium market segment that is increasing in sale volumes = more sales of most expensive TVs = more profit ==> make moar largest exclusive panels and don't bother with expanding to a dead market of medium sized monitor panels. No doubt the Samsung and LG panels for TVs are pretty outstanding, yet they use what looks like 10 year old tech in comparison for making their monitor panels.


BOE (Chinese LCD and OLED maker) is already showcasing OLEDs for signage and catching up to Samsung and LG's OLEDs as fast as they can.

Quote:
The key to Sharp’s decline is the 8K ecosystem business. Its operating profit dropped by 54%. The company could not recover because its LCD TV panel also recorded a decline. In the field of large-size LCD panels, Sharp is experiencing fierce price competition from Chinese companies. However, analysts believe that Sharp will have an edge over these companies in the coming quarters. Previous reports said that Sharp will reduce production by 20-30% in Q3 2019.

In the small and medium-sized panels, especially OLED panel, Sharp’s competitiveness is declining. The company’s OLED global panel market share is only 0.1%. At present, Samsung still ranks first with 85.7% share, but Samsung’s share is also rapidly declining. This is due to fierce competition from several companies in mainland China such as BOE. BOE’s mobile OLED panel market share increased from 5.5% to 5.9%. It is the world’s second-largest supplier of OLED mobile phone panels and it is still growing rapidly.

In addition to BOE, Chinese companies such as Tianma Microelectronics, Visionox, and Huiguang are also vigorously building OLED production lines. In a year or two, these companies will go into mass production. This will further increase competition in the OLED market. Sharp is finding it difficult to keep up with the pace of Chinese and Korean companies in this field. According to Korean media, Businesskorea, Sharp will withdraw from the smartphone OLED panel market.

https://www.gizchina.com/2019/08/02/...e-oled-market/
I think Sharp's had it, it's been a long time since their panel was in any known monitor. They probably sell to TVs, pro use, mobile etc. and have those 8k insanities no one buys to make products from be it TVs or monitors. King of LCD is dying.

JOLED
(Apr. 2019 Started construction of post-process mass production line in Chiba):

Nomi pre process
Chiba post process

That's 355 km direct by air and on ground it's east to west across whole Japan about 500+ km on road. 7+ hours by trains. That's sure gonna cut into their pricing.

Quote: Originally Posted by dmr2 View Post
Yes I love to keep my monitors on low brightness also, HP was on 18 and aoc is on 35, that is about 100cd/m2. And Hp on low brightnes has real white and AOC powdery dull dirty white. There is no calibration that would change that. Maybe it is because matte coating, don't know.
Coating difference likely. If it looks powdery dirty to you, then yes that's the top matte coating.
I've changed my phone top coating (protective layer/film) from overly matte kind of crystal matte look even since the phone panel PPI is so high (5.0" 1080p) to glossy (even glossy can make subpixel shifting artifacts, rainbow, from oils from fingers on the screen), the top coating does matter on any panel how it will look. Glossy retains the most detail and avoids unwanted interaction with the pixels/subpixels but for a monitor it's a pain to use for sure unless you live in a black room, wear only black and have very very dark skin. Had a glossy monitor screen before on laptop and it was a royal pain to use and manage reflections wise, especially on a laptop because the screen often aims into ceiling where lights or windows are. Semi glossy is the way to go for monitors.

Quote: Originally Posted by hemon View Post
I'm actually looking for an upgrade to my XB271HU: Will the 27GL850 be this? Or would be better the AD27QD?
Probably already have one of the best. These newer panels and monitors don't seem to be that different or better so far.

Quote: Originally Posted by Leopardi View Post
People buying those $2000 monitors surely aren't going to pick up a FALD (or a slightly extended FALD with mini leds) with terrible haloing and BLB and glow, if there is an OLED solution available.
Or dual layer LCD.

I think the race now is between who invests and brings monitor panels first: dual layer LCD (IPS, with high brightness, existing backlights, no burn in, ...) or printed OLED.
FALD while a valid solution is still a damn stop gap compared to even half resolution dual layer.

I would also not hold breath for 1440p OLEDs It's likely all gonna be 4k and a couple at best 1080p panels.

Couldn't find much more, it seem LCDs are being scaled down for large panels (TVs), OLED small panels (mobile) have oversupply and Apple is switching from Samsung to LG as primary source, finally moving to OLED for their overpriced phones. The mid size for monitors is being invested into after endless waiting for printing which should have been done from the start as it is a cheaper way to make OLEDs and one of it's attractions. But it's harder to print mobile panels at high densities so they didn't go that route from start.

It's a shame they always put monitor sized panels as the last priority since that is what most people do look at half the day at work.

Hey could be worse, they could sell 5" $50 low end LCDs like RED for $1500.
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post #97 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 12:24 AM
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FALD is going to be necessary with dual LCD just to keep power under control. I don't want a 500W power brick with my 27" HDR1000 monitor.

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post #98 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Does it come with a solar panel?
I don't think dual layer LCD will consume a crap ton more. Most of the power consumption is from backlight and while a slightly stronger backlight may be necessary due to lower overall transparency if one isn't going for 1000 nits of reference perfectness for 30k+ EUR such as Sony BVM-HX310, EIZO CG3145 ColorEdge, ... 31.5" IPS dual layer 1M:1 contrast 1000 nits HDR color grading monitors for rich studios. Those eat a crap ton of power probably, mainly because no expenses spared inefficient but great performance backlight at high brightness along with a ton of electronics, uniformity compensation galore under the hood probably too. If you can even find a power figure for these, I don't remember them being mentioned.

And there already is a dual layer TV, maybe not sold yet but soon from HiSense and it didn't look like it needs it's own atomic power plant.

Even some of the modern VA monitors aren't exactly power efficient compared to other LCD types and monitors.

For 1000 nits... yes there may be a 100W PSU considering regular monitors already are in the 60 even 75W range.

From a gaming perspective that second layer only needs to be black-white = it is probably possible to make it faster than the RGB layers = better response times for luminance. On the other hand if second layer is 50% resolution then at least some minimal processing is necessary but if done right or outright in hardware then the added latency should be minimal if even measurable. Unlike the fairly apparent latencies of current FALD, because Nvidia... didn't design it exactly overly responsive, yes the 27" FALDs backlight is originally designed by NV. If they want to they can make it dual layer pixel for pixel and not go the cost saving route of 2160p RGB + 1080p luminance layer.

---

Added a few models to OP.

Last edited by JackCY; 08-18-2019 at 06:51 AM.
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post #99 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 10:09 AM
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100 watts? Lol no the Sony 30" professional dual layer LCD monitor consumes 300 watts with a maximum of 472 so it definitely consumes a crapton more.

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post #100 of 137 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Leopardi View Post
https://www.oled-info.com/digitimes-...-printing-line
https://www.oled-info.com/ihs-ink-je...n-process-2020

That's interesting, JOLED is not the only one gearing up for monitor production in 2020. AUO also sees OLED as a commercially viable solution now and is beginning building their own OLED print line.



2020-2024 will be the period where we transition from LCD monitors to OLED.
What worries me is this obsession lately with reducing blue light in monitors. Is this some precursor to making OLED emit less blue light? What I don't understand is how this does not completely throw off a monitor's color calibration. Imagine all monitors filtering out blue light. Eventually we will become sensitized to it and will not know what what the full unmolested color gamut looks like.

Last edited by aweir; 08-18-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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