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MPG341CQRV and Displayport 1.4

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-13-2020, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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MPG341CQRV and Displayport 1.4

So i opted to get this monitor instead of spending the extra ~$150 to get the 144hz model MPG341CQR. I figured since they are the same panel i can overclock and get the same if not close to the resolution/refresh of the more expensive model. Fast forward i get the monitor in and it can only do [email protected] at 8bit with native timings.

I try every setting in the NVCP and no combination of settings seems to allow it to get 10bit at its native resolution. I can set the monitor at [email protected] and get 10bit and i can set it to [email protected] at 10bit, so this is starting to look like a bandwidth issue. Sure enough GPU-Z is showing 5.4Gbps (or DP 1.2 speeds) instead of the 8.1Gbps (DP1.4 speeds).

I'm even able to overclock the monitor to [email protected] at 8bit resulting in a ~700Mhz pixel clock (generally the top end for DP1.2). So i start researching and find that my graphics card (GTX 1080) needs a firmware update. So i do that update and no change, then i update the whole GPU firmware and no change, and then i ran the nvidia DP 1.4 firmware update again to check if the full firmware update reverted it but it says i'm up-to-date.

I have a 6ft Displayport 1.4 cable that is VESA certified so maybe i think it could be the distance, so i bought 4 of the most reputable DP 1.4 VESA certified cables at only 1 meter. Again no change. So i updated my Mobo bios (why not) and chipset drivers (again why not) and no change. So i finally decide to bite the bullet and sell my GTX 1080 and get an RTX card that for sure natively has DP 1.4 support (not DP 1.4 "ready"). Again still getting 5.4Gbps in GPU-Z and unable to get past what a DP 1.2 speed would get me in terms bandwidth or maximum resolution.

So i finally reach out to MSI support... and they say its an 8 bit panel and ask where i saw it advertised as 10bit. I show them it can do 10 bit in a lower resolution, that the panel is 8bit+FRC, and give screenshots of GPU-Z showing the link rate speeds. They haven't replied in over a week. I did bug them and showed several different sites including their own site advertising 1.07 billion colors, DP1.4 and a screenshot with the monitor running at [email protected] at 10bit but got nothing back.

So i'm asking my overclock.net comrades to peer review my troubleshooting and thought process. The shorter cables did allow me to overclock to 140hz but anything past that is a no go and GPU-Z is still showing DP 1.2 speeds. My conspiracy theory is they limited this monitor to DP 1.2 to differentiate it from the more expensive 144hz model but i digress.

Also, the monitor firmware is FW.011. I asked about the firmware being the problem to MSI support but i got nothing back and from what i've read i would need to send the thing back to get a firmware update (which is flippin ridiculous, give me a file and thumb drive and i'll do it!!!). Please let me know if i missed anything, i know this isn't a big deal but my OCD is killing me over it and i am perceptive enough to see banding. Coming from a C27HG70 that had 10bit and 144hz its just enough to bug me. Its my punishment for trying to save a buck LOL.

EDIT1: One last thing i was thinking of trying was to get a bidirectional DP 1.4 cable to USB-C to try and use the monitor's DP 1.4 ALT mode and see if that changes anything. Haven't tried it yet since the cable/adapter is ~$40 and i just got to this point. Let me know if more details would help.

EDIT2: I attached a screenshot of GPU-Z showing the DP 1.2 speeds and a pic of my overclock to 138hz with the timings so anyone else with the monitor can replicate it. 140hz didn't have a stable horizontal polarity in games due to how low you have to make the total pixel count to get under 716Mhz, you can do 140hz stable at 719Mhz but the NVCP downs the color to 6bit. Seems [email protected] is the highest stable for my panel.... well at least with DP 1.2 being used and an overclock, who knows at DP 1.4.

EDIT3: Added a screenshot of MSI's support ticket for the issue for S&Gs.

EDIT4: MSI Support got back to me to ask what GPU i had.... after it was already listed in the ticket details... which is a required field you have to fill out to even submit a ticket.
Attached Images
File Type: bmp 1.2 DP Speeds Only.bmp (644.2 KB, 17 views)
File Type: bmp 138hz overclock.bmp (801.4 KB, 20 views)
File Type: bmp ticket TS030620006872.bmp (1.34 MB, 12 views)

Last edited by Spartan F8; 03-20-2020 at 11:35 PM.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-23-2020, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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The truth be told from MSI:

"So unfortunately, the website page for the monitor you have has a typo that incorrectly lists the monitor as DP 1.4 when it is actually 1.2. The issue is being resolved currently on our end."

Considering this monitor:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824475041

uses the same exact panel as the 144hz version of this monitor:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16824475035

that is most certainly DP1.4 i would assume the firmware has been set to DP1.2 to draw a distinction and justify the higher price tag. It would be nice to get a hold of the MSI firmware for the 144hz version and flash it onto the 120hz version, i suspect it would have some great results.

But since MSI holds their monitor firmwares hostage i digress. Way to make a quick buck with a firmware lock MSI...
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-23-2020, 08:18 PM
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No surprise to me, the specs clearly say CQRV is 120 Hz only and DP1.2a, which means it probably has different/older/cheaper input board compared to CQR that is specced at 144 Hz DP1.4.

https://asset.msi.com/pdf/main/globa...ix-MPG341CQRV?
https://asset.msi.com/pdf/main/globa...tix-MPG341CQR?

They don't say at what resolution and refresh it supports 10 bit input.
With these larger resolution on a limit of display connections there are always gotchas as the max advertised may at times be even 420 chroma etc.
One has to always check before buying, nothing more to it.

Don't trust webs often someone who doesn't care writes those very loosly as advertisement. Look for specifications etc. those tend to be more technical and someone put a bit more effort into making them and may try make sure the data is correct. Sort of like Intel's 5 GHz CPU which will only do 5 GHz on a single core and in practice thus almost never while all core turbo is much lower. Always dig out specs and if they are not available for the feature you want, dig more.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-23-2020, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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JackCY its no surprise to me either, i knew what i was getting into when i bought the monitor and i dug plenty. It was more than a purchase it was a project. I simply posted my findings here to see if anyone had any ideas (which wasn't the case). Admittedly i never found the spec sheet you found before i bought it but even with that it doesn't prove the CCB is cheaper or even different. I would like to know how you found that spec sheet because a tactical google search with the model number didn't seem to turn it up or i read over it.

And the panel is capable of not only 144hz at 2560x1080, its able to hit 141hz at its max resolution at 8bit. Which tells me that if you were to remove the DisplayPort limiter on the monitor port (much like we all used to remove DVI and HDMI limiters on GPU ports with CRU) it could very well hit 10bit and/or 144hz at its max resolution (maybe not both but i'd take one). So it is without a doubt capped and a firmware update could fix that or at least allow a little more headroom (like 3hz or whatever the data-rate difference from 8->10bit).

Just like a lot of TVs and GPUs, monitor ports are limited to a certain cable standard and most often can go higher. Even the GTX10 series needed a firmware update to do DP 1.4 and until that update all you got was 5.4gb/sec but after the update no problem getting 8.1gb/sec. Plenty of TVs are the same way on first release. Even the 144hz version of this monitor/panel shipped with firmwares that were unable to hit 144hz and had to be sent back for an update (just look at the reviews) they probably inadvertently had the CQRV firmware on it. MSI's tech support leaves much to desire as well.

I do agree with you about loose advertisement with websites and digging. Anyway after a nice refund from Amazon for the false advertising i got this monitor for just under $600, considering the 144hz monitor is $991 right now i'll be happy with what i got. One last thing to try is the USB-C connection, probably won't get me anywhere but its worth a try. Its just hard to find a DP1.4->USB-C cable, most are USB-C->DP1.4 and are one way. I think this one will work but we'll see, if it does getting a ~$1000 monitor for under $600 isn't to shabby.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1

Last edited by Spartan F8; 03-23-2020 at 09:22 PM.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 10:06 PM
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It's on MSI's product page. First and second link on Google when searching "MPG341CQRV".
https://www.msi.com/Monitor/Optix-MP.../Specification
Click datasheet. Done. It's not always as easy to find but it's often somewhere on the product pages or could be dug out of Geizhals at times etc.

It's possible they are entirely equal yes. I know there was some hackery before with ports and going out of spec but don't know any modern GPU and Displayport unlimiter if the GPU driver itself or GPU firmware is limiting the bandwidth to avoid potential issues by users going out of spec. It's not much fun to accidentally go out of spec and then have no signal or garbage with no way to go back, sure we know how to with CRU but not every app is as friendly as CRU when applying resolutions.

You could try the USBC if you have a Turing card. Not sure Navi cards offer USBC. Some Turing cards do, mine does but never used the USBC for anything yet. The Pascal cards indeed needed a patch for DP, did that too but never went above DP1.2 yet as those are often UW or 4k that need 1.4 bandwitdth.

Ah yeah, you're on Pascal, you don't have USBC out. I would only need to get a good fast USBC cable I guess.

If you're really hacky you could "borrow" the other version with DP1.4 firmware, save/dump it, save the DP1.2 version firmware before trying to update it with the DP1.4 from other version ;D But that may mean opening both monitors and using some flasher to flash the chips if even possible as they could also be write locked. Dunno if MSI provides firmware updates to customers and I've never seen them leaked from service centers at least not on public web.

You could try complaining to MSI as having the DP1.4 variant monitor with DP1.2 firmware and try get them to send you the DP1.4 update for it that you could apply yourself.

I would not tell them anything about OC or provide proofs and photos and what not as you wrote in OP. Make a new burner account when contacting them, try and get a hold of a serial number from the DP1.4 variant just in case they ask etc. So it all seems legit
Typically though the answer often is: send it to a service center to be updated

Samsung has user updates but I never did them as I returned their trashy curved monitors quite fast. Often there are no user updates for monitors.

I would set it to 8 bit as 10 bit while nice is not that useful in practice and crank the refresh as high as it will go. (138 Hz) It's not a big difference from 144 Hz, I'm surprised they didn't block the OC outright as most monitors will only allow very small OC such as +1 Hz and that's it, after that the firmware triggers an out of range message etc. to stop people from OCing monitor refresh.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Well then that isn't news to me, that is the update they said they were going to do after i found them out about the port not going to DP1.4 in the MSI ticket. I outright accused them of selling the new firmware as a new "monitor" and they didn't even deny it. They must have already updated there page and that spec sheet used to only show 1 displayport port with no mention as to the version where the webpage itself showed DP1.4 (which has also been updated in the last few days). I wish i had the old copy of it... actually i might in my temp inet files, i'll attach it if i find it but it definitely said just DP with no designation. I thought i recognized it but it never had a the port version listed so i thought you found something new.

So i did dig enough its just the evidence directly from MSI has been erased

I am surprised the monitor overclocks at all, by allowing that they gave me the means to see that they were the same exact panel, well that and the fact that the panel can get to 144hz at lower resolutions. I also don't mind going out of spec, most of the time you get reverted by the countdown timer or can go back immediately by hitting escape twice. All else fails connect the monitor to a different port and you revert to native and will have picture. If you want to use that other port again delete the monitor profile from it in CRU or the detailed view of the device manager.

I don't have a USBC on my card so i grabbed the DP1.4 to USBC cable in the link i attached. Should give me the ability to at least test the USBC port on the monitor to see if it has the same bandwidth limit. Worst case i'm returning a cable, best case i've turned this 120hz variant into a 144hz variant.

I would love to borrow MSI's 144hz variant firmware but unfortunately that ship has sailed. They keep their firmwares behind closed doors and from what i can find have no USB quick update method. After dozens of forums i found people complaining about the firmware updates not being allow to users i found one with a MSI apologist trying to defend them who said he had seen the device they use to update the firmware and it was pretty extensive. So i guess they are still in the past on that (so no firmware dumping via USB) which means a PCB swap would be easier (if i could find that on ebay or something for cheap, even if it is ~$30 it would be worth it to get the 120hz variant and do a PCB swap for the price... for the hacky friendly).

I hear you on the trashy samsung curved monitors, i've been through a few of those and they can't make a uniform curved monitor to save their life.

EDIT: Found the original spec sheet attached that shows DP1.4 and then just DP with no version. the cable adapter comes Friday.
https://asset.msi.com/pdf/main/es/pr...ix-MPG341CQRV?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf msi-optix-mpg341cqrv-datasheet.pdf (656.7 KB, 5 views)

Last edited by Spartan F8; 03-25-2020 at 08:22 AM.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 11:43 AM
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The panels don't care, you could drive them at 10 kHz if you wanted to. The limitation to refresh rate comes from the board that drives panels, processing speed and data transport (port/cable capabilities).
Panels have resolution and transition speeds, so they define resolution and how fast they can change between states ("colors").
The electronics again defines overdrive, async, OSD and all that.

The chip flashers are not that complicated and available at least in recent years even fairly easily. For different chips. So people can recover mobo/GPU BIOS etc. I don't have these but I have an ATtiny programmer/flasher. And to be fair my mobo's UEFI chips (yes two chips, removable from a socket) have the same package as bigger ATtiny ATmega and what not chips, it's all standardized these sizes of chips but the programmers may not be though they likely are too to some extent or can be created using other DIY mini computers even I think.

Yeah the USB updating has to be specifically designed on the product. Which nowadays should be a given, has a USB and some firmware, for duck sake make it updateable. But for monitors they buy these boards, old board designs and then reskin the OSD. MSI designs the plastic shell or pays someone to do it, buys everything else quite likely and has someone make the shell for them, they may then assembly it all together if even that.

Yeah various language subsites having different specs, best of the best XD
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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The DisplayPort to USBC cable came in and didn't work (this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1)

I also tried connecting my Huawei laptop USBC to it and got nothing (going USBC to USBC). I need to find a USBC ALT MODE certified device to be sure but i'm starting to think the USBC port on the monitor doesn't work for anything outside of power.

EDIT1: Just an FYI to anyone getting this monitor and overclocking, you must have Freesync on otherwise you get banding artifacts on the bottom of the screen. It is a valid overclock tho.

EDIT2: Turns out this is way more complicated than i thought for DP 1.4 -> USBC especially if this monitor needs power at all.
https://hardforum.com/threads/use-us...1911817/page-1

EDIT3: NOT POSSIBLE for USBC unless it originates from USBC, this monitor doesn't accept a DisplayPort signal over USB-C (UFP_D pin assignment E) so it won't work . I could get a GPU with USBC or a add on card with USBC but now the difference in cost between the 120hz model and 144hz model is disappearing (MSI's likely intent).

Last edited by Spartan F8; 03-27-2020 at 11:46 AM.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 08:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Spartan F8 View Post
The DisplayPort to USBC cable came in and didn't work (this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1)

I also tried connecting my Huawei laptop USBC to it and got nothing (going USBC to USBC). I need to find a USBC ALT MODE certified device to be sure but i'm starting to think the USBC port on the monitor doesn't work for anything outside of power.

EDIT1: Just an FYI to anyone getting this monitor and overclocking, you must have Freesync on otherwise you get banding artifacts on the bottom of the screen. It is a valid overclock tho.

EDIT2: Turns out this is way more complicated than i thought for DP 1.4 -> USBC especially if this monitor needs power at all.
https://hardforum.com/threads/use-us...1911817/page-1

EDIT3: NOT POSSIBLE for USBC unless it originates from USBC, this monitor doesn't accept a DisplayPort signal over USB-C (UFP_D pin assignment E) so it won't work . I could get a GPU with USBC or a add on card with USBC but now the difference in cost between the 120hz model and 144hz model is disappearing (MSI's likely intent).
You need USBC with video output, such as a Turing card. Or a new laptop maybe that has a Turing GPU and offer USBC with video output, yes often they call it ALT MODE. DP ALT MODE, etc.
No idea about DP to USBC cables and it being possible with a passive cable.

There is another issue for others, they tend to have Apple or for Apple designed monitors that only have USBC/Thunderbolt and nothing else, no DP, no HDMI, no power, nothing. And then they try to whack it onto their PC's USBC lol.

That cable's user review:

Quote:
Yeah this does NOT work bidirectional. I connected it from my RTX2070 Displayport to my USBC monitor and got no display at all. The little spec sheet it came with even said the USBC side was output and the DP side was input, not sure why the OEM said otherwise.
So it's a USBC DP ALT mode to DP cable. Such as I could use my Turing GPU's USBC out to connect to my monitor's DP port.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-28-2020, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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That was my user review for that cable so that wasn't there beforehand. I contacted the OEM and they said that the cable would work bidirectional with my use case but obviously that wasn't the case.


Rather than switch to a turing card i might try this
https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-GC-T...5433852&sr=8-2

If i cannot find a active or passive cable for DP to USBC. I already moved from GTX1080 to an RTX2070 so i'm reluctant to switch cards again. Got a crazy good deal on the RTX2070.

Last edited by Spartan F8; 03-28-2020 at 08:50 PM.
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